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Projections and Elogium

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MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jun. 17 2010, 9:20 am

Projections

I really enjoyed this episode. For anyone who watches 'Lost', it reminded me of the ep with Hurley when they try to convince him that the island is all in his head and he's merely having a psychotic episode.

Of course the viewer knew that it couldn't be a holoprogram, but still, it kept me hooked to find out just what was going on.

The opening scene, where the EMH thinks he is all alone on the ship made me really glad that he's been given the ability to terminate his own program. Can you imagine being stuck in the sickbay on an abandoned ship for ever, with no means of ending it?

I also found myself thinking about Starfleet medics over-reliance on tricorders. Like, in our time, a doctor would be able to diagnose a patient by sight or by taking physical readings, but the EMH seemed quite lost when the tricorders stopped working.

It does often seem in Trek (and this isn't just for doctors but all crew) that the computers do most of the work. There's a scene in Elogium (that I'll get to later) where B'Elanna wanted to reroute the power to some systems or something, and I found myself thinking it would be nice to see her actually climbing about in a jefferies tube for once, but no, she just tapped her console and it was done instantly.

Anyway, back to the ep. They seemed to have a variable concept of time in this ep. Like, when B'Elanna first sees the EMH she tells him that he needs to get to the bridge immediately because Janeway was hurt and it would take her (B'Elanna) too long to get there...but then she takes 20 minutes to get the holoprojectors on-line, lol.
Similarly, Janeway says it'll take her half an hour to get to the mess hall, but then she seems to get to places quite quickly later.

I think the scene in the mess hall, with Neelix and the Kazon warrior, just shows how lame the Kazon actually are. I mean, he's armed with a weapon and yet he's hiding from a man throwing vegetables? *facepalm*

I did love the moment when it showed Janeway and the rest of the crew to be holograms though. And especially the "delete Paris, delete Kim" bit. But could the EMH not have warned them about the consequences of destroying the array? He obviously still had doubts in his own mind at that time that it was a hologram, because he still didn't want to destroy the ship. So if, maybe, he was thinking he'd somehow gone back in time instead, you'd think he'd have said something like "just so you know, if you destroy that array we'll be stuck out here for, like, seventy-five years" :laugh:

But overall it was a good episode. I enjoyed the focus being on the EMH and thought it was a good performance from Picardo, especially the little nuances of fear throughout.

Elogium

Oh dear, where to begin with this one? :laugh:

It was a really interesting concept; the crew all beginning to 'pair off' and have children, and the idea of Voyager becoming a generational ship and if they were equipped for that. Unfortunately they chose to approach the concept in the cr*ppiest way.

I know people have said this a lot on the board already, but I just don't see any chemistry between Kes and Neelix at all. They're more like brother/sister, or even worse father/daughter. When they were kissing it felt really flat, and I totally couldn't imagine the pair of them mating!

I found it quite funny how Chakotay was so shocked to find two ensigns kissing (shock horror! ) I mean, he used to be a maquis for god's sake, you'd think he'd be a little more laid back.

A nice bit of flirting between him and Janeway on the bridge. I can see the seeds being sown between them, and I'll admit I'm quite partial to a bit of J/C action...but at the same time I find there's something quite predatory about the way Janeway looks at him when they're talking. Like, she's only inches away and kind of pins him down with her gaze. Does anyone know what I mean?

I thought Jen Lien gave a really good performance as Kes in this ep. She hasn't really done much to impress me so far but I really felt for her with her baby dilemma. The concept of the elogium was interesting too...but I dunno, maybe it's just the Neelix factor, but it was kind of cringeworthy to watch at the same time.

And then, of course, we had the horny space creatures :laugh:
The CGI looked really bad, but what was worse was poor Robert Beltran having to keep a straight face while describing how they wanted to hump the ship! Just ridiculous really.

So yeah, not one of my fave episodes, although it was nice finding out a little bit more about Tuvok's family. And also Ensign Wildman at the end declaring she was pregnant. Do we get to see more of her? And do we ever see the baby on Voyager?

captbates

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Report this Jun. 17 2010, 6:28 pm

Hi Mrs S. good to see you've started your reviews again. :)

Quote
I also found myself thinking about Starfleet medics over-reliance on tricorders. Like, in our time, a doctor would be able to diagnose a patient by sight or by taking physical readings, but the EMH seemed quite lost when the tricorders stopped working.


I think there's two things to consider in this episode, the first is that the Doc is confused by what's happening around/to him, the second is that it's still early days for him. As the show continues the Doc is by far the most "evolved" and in depth character on the show.

;)

Quote
I did love the moment when it showed Janeway and the rest of the crew to be holograms though. And especially the "delete Paris, delete Kim" bit. But could the EMH not have warned them about the consequences of destroying the array? He obviously still had doubts in his own mind at that time that it was a hologram, because he still didn't want to destroy the ship. So if, maybe, he was thinking he'd somehow gone back in time instead, you'd think he'd have said something like "just so you know, if you destroy that array we'll be stuck out here for, like, seventy-five years"


Not too sure what your getting at here Mrs S, I'm sure they already knew the consequences of destroying the array, but again the events weren't real anyway.


;)
Look out for "Deadlock" a very good episode near the end of season 2.

KelisThePoet

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Report this Jun. 17 2010, 6:42 pm

I re-watched "Projections" recently, and I've seen it multiple times before, but this was the first time I realized (decided?) that the Chakotay interacting with the doctor, claiming to be a projected extension of the real Chakotay, from outside the holodeck, is actually not an extension of the real Chakotay. He's just part of the doctor's imagination/projection, like the Barclay hologram. Otherwise, nobody would have been confused at the end of the show, when the doctor asks if Kes is his wife, because the real Chakotay would have seen the part of the doctor's delusion/projection in which Kes appears as his wife. I think "Projections" is one of the best episodes because in spite of the fact that we all know the doctor is a hologram, the show has so many narrative twists that it can be rewardingly mysterious, even on repeat viewings. "Projections" reminds me of "Barge of the Dead" in that respect, another of my favorites.

Enterprise19

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Report this Jun. 17 2010, 7:04 pm

Kes.....eats.......beetles?! :sick:

deepspaceniner999

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Report this Jun. 21 2010, 7:14 pm

I didn't really like Kes. She was too.... bland. There was no spice to her character, no exciting twists or plot turns. It was all predictable. At the last episode she was in (The Gift, I believe) I fell asleep in it after thinking,
"She's going to leave the ship and everyone will cry. The end."

chr3335

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Report this Jun. 21 2010, 11:08 pm

Quote
I found myself thinking it would be nice to see her actually climbing about in a jefferies tube for once, but no, she just tapped her console and it was done instantly.
 This always bothered me with Trek with having all the important officers crawling around the useless 24th century duct work( or in some cases giant hallways such as in the TNG episode The Hunted) instead of delegating that grunt work to the technicians like it is done in the real world.  

I like projections this kind of episode really plays to Brannon Braga's limited strengths as a writer.  It was well written and it kept you guessing the entire time

Elogium reveals that the Ocampa are a doomed species with a negative birthrate NATRUALLY.

brcarthey

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Report this Jun. 21 2010, 11:27 pm

i'll simply say about "projections" was cool in that you weren't sure what was real and what wasn't until almost the very end.

as for "elogium," let me just say that while i really love my wife, if she ever came at me with crap on her hands that occurred b/c of some hormonal reaction and said i had to be stuck to her for 2 days, i'd be thinking about a vasectomy.

everytime i see a still of kes with that crap on her hands and the look on her face, it makes me think that she's actually mad at neelix for leaving his talaxian manseed all over her hands. "WTH neelix!! do you know how hard it is to get this junk off my hands?? use a freakin' tissue next time!"

KelisThePoet

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Report this Jun. 22 2010, 1:04 am

Quote (chr3335 @ June 21 2010, 11:08 pm)
Elogium reveals that the Ocampa are a doomed species with a negative birthrate NATRUALLY.

This has always bothered me, especially because it means Janeway destroyed the array and sacrificed her crew's future for the next seven years in order to save a species that will be gone in a few generations, anyway--not that Janeway would be justified in selling out the Ocampa, even so, but thinking about what the Ocampa became in episodes like "Elogium" just kind of emotionally dampens the finale of "Caretaker," ¿with Janeway's big, stirring speech about how the Ocampa will survive the Caretaker's death.

I guess, if one has the desire to make sense of Ocampan physiology as described in "Elogium," it's possible the Ocampa devolved after generations of unnatural dependence on the Caretaker. They may have originally been a more hardy, fertile species. Or possibly, the mating of two Ocampa for life is a relatively new cultural development, and females greatly outnumber males in this species.

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 6:03 am

Quote (captbates @ June 17 2010, 12:28 am)
Re-routing power is usually done easily from a consul, unless there's complications, and trust me, the jeffries tubes are well used during the show. ?;)

Yeah, I know they can do these things easily from a console, but what I'm saying is that, for dramatic effect, I wish they hadn't made engineering so 'button pushing' at times.

But good to know I'll be seeing more of the jefferies tubes (in fact, I just watched 'Twisted' where Janeway and Kim scramble through the tubes. Good fun! )

Quote (captbates @ June 17 2010, 12:28 am)
Remember that these events aren't real though, and the writers "indulged" with the Neelix scene.

Yeah, I guess you're right. It just feels like every time they get a chance to show how bada$$ the Kazon are, they mess it up.

Quote (captbates @ June 17 2010, 12:28 am)
Not too sure what your getting at here Mrs S, I'm sure they already knew the consequences of destroying the array, but again the events weren't real anyway.

Yeah, you are right. I guess I just wanted a little bit of 'flashback humour' (a la Fight Club) ;)


Quote (captbates @ June 17 2010, 12:28 am)
Yeah Ensign Wildman pops up from time to time, and her "baby" becomes an important part of the show. ?;)
Look out for "Deadlock" a very good episode near the end of season 2.

Ooh, I'll look forward to this. I know when I've caught a couple of later episodes, there were crewmembers in it that I didn't recognise, so I'll be waiting for them to expand their ranks a little bit :)

One of the characters I remember, who I haven't seen in the early eps, is a teenage boy with a Kirk fixation (I think he was in episode 'Q2' although I'm not totally sure about that).

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 6:16 am

Quote (KelisThePoet @ June 17 2010, 12:42 am)
I re-watched "Projections" recently, and I've seen it multiple times before, but this was the first time I realized (decided?) that the Chakotay interacting with the doctor, claiming to be a projected extension of the real Chakotay, from outside the holodeck, is actually not an extension of the real Chakotay. He's just part of the doctor's imagination/projection, like the Barclay hologram. Otherwise, nobody would have been confused at the end of the show, when the doctor asks if Kes is his wife, because the real Chakotay would have seen the part of the doctor's delusion/projection in which Kes appears as his wife.

Good point. I guess I'd need to watch it again to see if I agree, but it makes sense.

Quote (KelisThePoet @ June 17 2010, 12:42 am)
I think "Projections" is one of the best episodes because in spite of the fact that we all know the doctor is a hologram, the show has so many narrative twists that it can be rewardingly mysterious, even on repeat viewings. "Projections" reminds me of "Barge of the Dead" in that respect, another of my favorites.

It's not my favourite episode so far, but I did really enjoy it.
And I haven't seen Barge of the Dead yet (I've got quite a way to go before I get to that one! )

Quote (deepspaceniner999 @ June 21 2010, 1:14 am)
I didn't really like Kes. She was too.... bland. There was no spice to her character, no exciting twists or plot turns. It was all predictable. At the last episode she was in (The Gift, I believe) I fell asleep in it after thinking,
"She's going to leave the ship and everyone will cry. The end."

I don't mind Kes. I think she seems to have a calming influence on a lot of the other characters. The only thing that's starting to annoy me a little with her is that every single male on the ship seems to be falling for her! Are there no other women onboard? :eyesroll:

Quote (brcarthey @ June 21 2010, 5:27 am)
as for "elogium," let me just say that while i really love my wife, if she ever came at me with crap on her hands that occurred b/c of some hormonal reaction and said i had to be stuck to her for 2 days, i'd be thinking about a vasectomy.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Quote (KelisThePoet @ June 21 2010, 7:04 am)
Quote (chr3335 @ June 21 2010, 11:08 pm)
Elogium reveals that the Ocampa are a doomed species with a negative birthrate NATRUALLY.

This has always bothered me, especially because it means Janeway destroyed the array and sacrificed her crew's future for the next seven years in order to save a species that will be gone in a few generations, anyway--not that Janeway would be justified in selling out the Ocampa, even so, but thinking about what the Ocampa became in episodes like "Elogium" just kind of emotionally dampens the finale of "Caretaker," ?with Janeway's big, stirring speech about how the Ocampa will survive the Caretaker's death.

I guess, if one has the desire to make sense of Ocampan physiology as described in "Elogium," it's possible the Ocampa devolved after generations of unnatural dependence on the Caretaker. They may have originally been a more hardy, fertile species. Or possibly, the mating of two Ocampa for life is a relatively new cultural development, and females greatly outnumber males in this species.

Yes, that's a really good point. And I've mentioned this before, but it is one of the things that, to me, seems really inconsistent in Voyager, the times when Janeway will go out of her way to save a species, compared to the times when she's prepared to sit back and do nothing (like in 'Time and Again' is it? Where she says to warn them about the explosion would be against the PD? )

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 6:20 am

border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (chr3335 @ June 21 2010, 5:08 am)

chr3335

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Report this Jun. 24 2010, 8:50 pm

> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (chr3335 @ June 21 2010, 5:08 am)> id="QUOTE">:)
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (MrsStarbuck @ June 23 2010, 7:20 am)

Screw the ensigns get the actually enlisted guys to do the work (that is why we enlisted guys are on the ship :D )

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