ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

all religious trekkies need to watch a TNG episode

> id="QUOTE">
1. "proto-Vulcan race" is the full canon referance made.

Ali88

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 889

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 7:35 am

"Who watches the watchers"


All you trekkies who believe in Jesus, Allah, God etc should watch the TNG episode "who watches the watchers"

Observe how the primitive civilisation were ignorant of science and nature and believed in Gods and were deluded

Picard broke them free of this and showed them science and reality

relate that to your own religion and beliefs

religion was created at a time when humanity was in the same stages as those primitive vulcans were in

think about that

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 7:50 am

Quote (Ali88 @ June 13 2010, 7:35 am)
"Who watches the watchers"


All you trekkies who believe in Jesus, Allah, God etc should watch the TNG episode "who watches the watchers"

Observe how the primitive civilisation were ignorant of science and nature and believed in Gods and were deluded

Picard broke them free of this and showed them science and reality

relate that to your own religion and beliefs

religion was created at a time when humanity was in the same stages as those primitive vulcans were in

think about that

A] Picard didnt diswade them in the believe of Gods by intent.

B] Those people werent Vulcans.

Kor_Dahar_Master

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 129

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 8:42 am

Quote (Ali88 @ June 13 2010, 7:35 am)
"Who watches the watchers"


All you trekkies who believe in Jesus, Allah, God etc should watch the TNG episode "who watches the watchers"

Observe how the primitive civilisation were ignorant of science and nature and believed in Gods and were deluded

Picard broke them free of this and showed them science and reality

relate that to your own religion and beliefs

religion was created at a time when humanity was in the same stages as those primitive vulcans were in

think about that

I have no problem with ppl believing in some form god after all Einstien did in his own way and so did many other of the most famous names in science.

Einstien certainly did not DISbelieve in some form of what could be considered a God. He said that the Universe could have been chaotic ect but the God Einstien believed in had chosen one of order.

I do not confuse religon with God because religon and the institutions it is involved in are mans creation and a lot of them were born from ignorance and developed to be a control mechanism for the masses using fear ect.

Oh and you were right they were a "proto-Vulcan race" according to canon.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 8:46 am

Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 13 2010, 8:42 am)
Oh and you were right they were a "proto-Vulcan race" according to canon.

No he wasnt right.

Pro-to Vulcan does not equal Vulcans.

It only means that those people have evolved in a similar fashion to how the Vulcans evolved.

Much lile the many races we saw in TOS were Proto-human but werent humans.

Kor_Dahar_Master

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 129

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 9:02 am

Quote (stovokor2000 @ June 13 2010, 8:46 am)
Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 13 2010, 8:42 am)
Oh and you were right they were a "proto-Vulcan race" according to canon.

No he wasnt right.

Pro-to Vulcan does not equal Vulcans.

It only means that those people have evolved in a similar fashion to how the Vulcans evolved.

Much lile the many races we saw in TOS were Proto-human but werent humans.

Do you ever bother to research the stuff you post?.

 
The adjective PROTO has 1 sense:

1. Indicating the first or earliest.

Context example:

'proto' is a combining form in a word like 'protolanguage' that refers to the hypothetical ancestor of another language or group of languages

Similar:

Early (at or near the beginning of a period of time or course of events or before the usual or expected time).

Simply put a Proto-vulcan refers to a primitive or early vulcan in regards to species.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 3:20 pm

Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 13 2010, 9:02 am)
Do you ever bother to research the stuff you post?.

Yes I do...but apparently you dont because you just proved me right again.

 
Quote

The adjective PROTO has 1 sense:

1. Indicating the first or earliest.

Context example:

'proto' is a combining form in a word like 'protolanguage' that refers to the hypothetical ancestor of another language or group of languages

Similar:

Early (at or near the beginning of a period of time or course of events or before the usual or expected time).

Simply put a Proto-vulcan refers to a primitive or early vulcan in regards to species.


"Similar in regaurds to species and development" to Vulcans but yet they were not Vulcans.

They were not from the "Planet Vulcan", they were not an off shoot society of the Vulcans like the Romulans or the Debrune.

No canon source has any indication that these "proto-Vulcans" had any connection to the planet Vulcan or its people in any way.

So I repeat..."Pro-to Vulcan does not equal Vulcans.

It only means that those people have evolved in a similar fashion to how the Vulcans evolved."

Now your failure is complete.

Kor_Dahar_Master

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 129

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 4:26 pm

Quote (stovokor2000 @ June 13 2010, 3:20 pm)

Quote
A proto-Vulcan humanoid is a humanoid  species which show traits of early Vulcans.

In 2366, Doctor Barron's preliminary reports indicated that the Mintakans were proto-Vulcan humanoids at the Bronze Age level. This meant that they were quite peaceful and highly logical. (TNG: "Who Watches The Watchers")






1. "proto-Vulcan race" is the full canon referance made.

2. My definition of the meaning of "proto" is totally accurate.



3. You constant petty nitpicking is getting very old and makes you look like a argumentative idiotic child.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 8:57 pm

> id="QUOTE">
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 13 2010, 4:26 pm)

Quote:


border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote


And a "proto-Vulcan race" does not mean they are Vulcans.

They did not originate on the planet Vulcan, they are not an offshoot of the Vulcanms.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">
3. You constant petty nitpicking is getting very old and makes you look like a argumentative idiotic child.

I'm not nit picking at all.

The op called them Vulcans.

I corrected him/her.

You, in an attempt to prove me wrong because of a different debate, stated the op was correct t when he called them Vulcans.

But you were also wrong.

So either you should have done better research or been more presise with the wording in your post.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 1:10 am

Quote (marshall8472 @ June 13 2010, 10:46 pm)
here are the mentions of the Mintakans being proto-vulcan

Quote
TROI: According to Doctor Barron's preliminary reports, the Mintakans are proto-Vulcan humanoids at the Bronze Age level. Quite peaceful and highly rational.
PICARD: Which is not surprising, considering how closely their evolution parallels Vulcan.

...

TROI: Mintakan emotions are quite interesting. Like the Vulcans, they have highly ordered minds. A very sensible people. For example, Mintakan women precede their mates. It's a signal to other women.


It looks like they're just saying that by mere chance, their species evolved similar to vulcans. ¿I suppose that is not very suprising in the star trek world considering how many species look like humans.

Thats exactly what I've been saying.

The Mintakan are no more "Vulcans" then , lets say, the people of t Sigma Iotia II or the people of Capella IV were "Earthers/Humans/Terrens"

Kor_Dahar_Master

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 129

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 6:03 am

Quote (marshall8472 @ June 13 2010, 11:34 pm)
¿For example, is it still a god if it is: not intelligent, not conscious, not a being, and did not create the universe?.

I think the mistake being made by such questions is again we are trying to comprehend something in our limited terms that is going to be incomprehensable. Intelligence, consciousness and being a "being" are certainly not requirements as far as im concerned or at least in regards to our limited terms are not.

Although the last one about not some how creating the universe or at least some how causing the universe to be created or in fact being the universe itself for want of a better description i think is what most would consider to be a requirement.

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 10:58 am

Quote (Ali88 @ June 13 2010, 10:35 am)
"Who watches the watchers"


All you trekkies who believe in Jesus, Allah, God etc should watch the TNG episode "who watches the watchers"

Observe how the primitive civilisation were ignorant of science and nature and believed in Gods and were deluded

Picard broke them free of this and showed them science and reality

relate that to your own religion and beliefs

religion was created at a time when humanity was in the same stages as those primitive vulcans were in

think about that

Thank God this kind of arrogance was stripped away in DS9.

There exists room for all belief systems. In fact, the goal of the Federation is to embrace all cultures and all beliefs. It is NOT to point out that science alleviates the need for religion.

The truth is that all of the mysteries of the universe will never be known by man (or Vulcan, Bajoran, Klingon, etc). And thus faith should never be ridiculed.

Ali88

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 889

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 1:19 pm

Quote (TheDriver @ June 14 2010, 10:58 am)
Quote (Ali88 @ June 13 2010, 10:35 am)
"Who watches the watchers"


All you trekkies who believe in Jesus, Allah, God etc should watch the TNG episode "who watches the watchers"

Observe how the primitive civilisation were ignorant of science and nature and believed in Gods and were deluded

Picard broke them free of this and showed them science and reality

relate that to your own religion and beliefs

religion was created at a time when humanity was in the same stages as those primitive vulcans were in

think about that

Thank God this kind of arrogance was stripped away in DS9.

There exists room for all belief systems. In fact, the goal of the Federation is to embrace all cultures and all beliefs. It is NOT to point out that science alleviates the need for religion.

The truth is that all of the mysteries of the universe will never be known by man (or Vulcan, Bajoran, Klingon, etc). And thus faith should never be ridiculed.

I quote Sam Harris


"Love and curiousity is enough for us and intellectual honesty is the guardian of them"

Holberg

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1047

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 4:21 pm

Father for give them for they know not what they do.

HaventGotALife

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 760

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 5:42 pm

As an atheist, I realize that the moment religion accepted Evolution as potentially a part of the works of God, we lost the fight. God has to open his mouth or be proved completely out of existence for this argument to end. It is a circular argument between believers and non-believers. I like the episode, and I will admit that I like it to explain my views on religion, however, I do not think that it is proof-positive that there is no God or people should abandon their faith because Star Trek says so. After all, this is imagination and putting down religion for the sake of imagination makes you as bad as the person that dreamed up a deity that touched us to walk in God's image. It is food-for-thought of where religion came from and why it is so wide-spread.

Also, this episode isn't anti-religion. If we are to follow this model, Picard is God, then Jesus and his father walked the earth, and perhaps, had an impact on us. They just might have not been perfect. Remember, the technology is why they are worshiped. If there is a being that liked us, created us, and created our atmosphere, then God exists. We just are interpreting him wrong by worshiping him for being more intelligent and advanced as us.

grigori

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10463

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 5:43 pm

Trek has never come down against religion, per se. And the observation that many religious rites have their roots in pagan superstition is hardly a big revelation from sci-fi. The more intellectual and reformed churches have been analyzing, studying and rejecting the superstitious elements from their faith for centuries.

There's just always groups of people more comfortable with the superstitious aspects of religion who don't care to be enlightened. But you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and an Idea or an Ideal is NOT responsible for everyone who happens to believe in it.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum