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why did Picard place rocks on kirk's corpse?

Ali88

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POSTS: 889

Report this Jun. 12 2010, 4:54 pm

In Star Trek Generations, Kirk dies in a steel bridge wreckage at the bottom of a mountain. Picard pulls kirk's dead body out of the wreckage and then carries it all the way up to the top of the mountain and places big rocks over his dead body

why did he do that?

I'm assuming when Picard met up with his crew, he told them about Kirk's death and one of the rescue ships beamed kirk's body up and he was taken back to Earth for a proper starfleet burial- why not? he's considered the greatest starfleet captain that ever lived wasn't he?

Kirk wasn't staying on that planet

wouldn't it have been more logical to leave Kirk's body in the wreckage and then have a rescue ship beam it up from the wreckage

Imagine you're over at one of your friend's house, alone with him/her and some cupboards or something really big and heavy collapses on him/her and crushes and kills him/her.

You then drag their dead body out in their back garden and place rocks over their dead body and stand over it for some time and then hours later, call for an ambulance and have the dead body taken away

That would be stupid if you did that but it's no different from what Picard did with Kirk- (if Kirk's body was beamed up from veridian III)

if you'll say Picard left kirk's body on Veridian III

Why would Picard do that? isn't that like the most disrespectful thing you could do for Kirk at that point? Just leaving the greatest starfleet captain ever underneath a pile of rocks on a isolated planet in the middle of nowhere, light years away from Earth and never mentioning it to anyone

I will be mentioning this in my video review for star trek generations, it's just one of MANY MANY reasons why Star Trek: Generations is the worst movie that has ever been made

Swidden

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Report this Jun. 12 2010, 6:04 pm

This is an old Hollywood tradition of burying the hero where he dies. In these situations shovels are not usually available for internment that way. Fairly common scene in a lot of old westerns (another one, and a variation of it is in STII-TWOK, is the burial at sea in navy oriented movies/shows). It's basically just a form of Hollywood cliche.

AtoZ2

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Report this Jun. 12 2010, 6:17 pm

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ June 12 2010, 6:08 pm)
Another thing to consider is that Kirk always knew he would die alone. Mean away from his family and closest friends~~ which is exactly what happened in GEN. So to be buried alone fits perfectly with Kirk's perception of his own death. :logical:

Perhaps, but still, you don't leave the body of the single greatest Star Fleet Captain to ever live under a pile of rocks of some obscure desolated planet in the middle of no where...you bring the body HOME for the full honor hero burial Kirk so justly deserves.

Out side the on screen dramatics of it, there was simply no reason for it.

Swidden

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POSTS: 1192

Report this Jun. 12 2010, 6:25 pm

Quote (AtoZ2 @ June 12 2010, 3:17 pm)
Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ June 12 2010, 6:08 pm)
Another thing to consider is that Kirk always knew he would die alone. Mean away from his family and closest friends~~ which is exactly what happened in GEN. So to be buried alone fits perfectly with Kirk's perception of his own death. :logical:

Perhaps, but still, you don't leave the body of the single greatest Star Fleet Captain to ever live under a pile of rocks of some obscure desolated planet in the middle of no where...you bring the body HOME for the full honor hero burial Kirk so justly deserves.

Out side the on screen dramatics of it, there was simply no reason for it.

You don't think that regardless of where his body ended up they didn't immediately commission a series of statues and/or commemorative memorabilia?

AtoZ2

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POSTS: 1297

Report this Jun. 12 2010, 6:40 pm

Quote (Swidden @ June 12 2010, 6:25 pm)
Quote (AtoZ2 @ June 12 2010, 3:17 pm)
Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ June 12 2010, 6:08 pm)
Another thing to consider is that Kirk always knew he would die alone. Mean away from his family and closest friends~~ which is exactly what happened in GEN. So to be buried alone fits perfectly with Kirk's perception of his own death. :logical:

Perhaps, but still, you don't leave the body of the single greatest Star Fleet Captain to ever live under a pile of rocks of some obscure desolated planet in the middle of no where...you bring the body HOME for the full honor hero burial Kirk so justly deserves.

Out side the on screen dramatics of it, there was simply no reason for it.

You don't think that regardless of where his body ended up they didn't immediately commission a series of statues and/or commemorative memorabilia?

True, they did carve Kirks face onto the side of El Capitan and offered limited edition stamps, coins, and McHappy Meals if that's what you mean.

wissa

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POSTS: 4026

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 2:17 am

Quote (Swidden @ June 12 2010, 10:25 am)
Quote (AtoZ2 @ June 12 2010, 3:17 pm)
Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ June 12 2010, 6:08 pm)
Another thing to consider is that Kirk always knew he would die alone. Mean away from his family and closest friends~~ which is exactly what happened in GEN. So to be buried alone fits perfectly with Kirk's perception of his own death. :logical:

Perhaps, but still, you don't leave the body of the single greatest Star Fleet Captain to ever live under a pile of rocks of some obscure desolated planet in the middle of no where...you bring the body HOME for the full honor hero burial Kirk so justly deserves.

Out side the on screen dramatics of it, there was simply no reason for it.

You don't think that regardless of where his body ended up they didn't immediately commission a series of statues and/or commemorative memorabilia?

they had already done that when Kirk disapeared into the nexus years before.  Everyone who had known him had already mourned him and died.  Monuments had already been built. What would have been the point of doing it again?

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 2:43 am

Quote (Ali88 @ June 12 2010, 4:54 pm)
In Star Trek Generations, Kirk dies in a steel bridge wreckage at the bottom of a mountain. Picard pulls kirk's dead body out of the wreckage and then carries it all the way up to the top of the mountain and places big rocks over his dead body

why did he do that?

I'm assuming when Picard met up with his crew, he told them about Kirk's death and one of the rescue ships beamed kirk's body up and he was taken back to Earth for a proper starfleet burial- why not? he's considered the greatest starfleet captain that ever lived wasn't he?

Kirk wasn't staying on that planet

wouldn't it have been more logical to leave Kirk's body in the wreckage and then have a rescue ship beam it up from the wreckage

Imagine you're over at one of your friend's house, alone with him/her and some cupboards or something really big and heavy collapses on him/her and crushes and kills him/her.

You then drag their dead body out in their back garden and place rocks over their dead body and stand over it for some time and then hours later, call for an ambulance and have the dead body taken away

That would be stupid if you did that but it's no different from what Picard did with Kirk- (if Kirk's body was beamed up from veridian III)

if you'll say Picard left kirk's body on Veridian III

Why would Picard do that? isn't that like the most disrespectful thing you could do for Kirk at that point? Just leaving the greatest starfleet captain ever underneath a pile of rocks on a isolated planet in the middle of nowhere, light years away from Earth and never mentioning it to anyone

I will be mentioning this in my video review for star trek generations, it's just one of MANY MANY reasons why Star Trek: Generations is the worst movie that has ever been made

Funny....you talk about whats "logical" with out thinking "logically" yourself.

Picard had absolutely no clue how long it might take for a rescue team to find him, or even if it would at all.

It could have taken hours...days, weeks, Picard just wouldnt know.

Further more covering a body with rocks is not disrespectful....its a form of burial.

And leaving Kirks body out in the open would have allowed it to be tampered with by any possible wild life on the planet.

So when you mention this in your review you might want to add that you really didnt think the question threw.

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 2:46 am

Quote (AtoZ2 @ June 12 2010, 6:17 pm)
Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ June 12 2010, 6:08 pm)
Another thing to consider is that Kirk always knew he would die alone. Mean away from his family and closest friends~~ which is exactly what happened in GEN. So to be buried alone fits perfectly with Kirk's perception of his own death. :logical:

Perhaps, but still, you don't leave the body of the single greatest Star Fleet Captain to ever live under a pile of rocks of some obscure desolated planet in the middle of no where...you bring the body HOME for the full honor hero burial Kirk so justly deserves.

Out side the on screen dramatics of it, there was simply no reason for it.

Its doubtful they would have left Kirks remains on that planet.

It would be a violation of the prime directive.

Ali88

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 889

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 6:59 am

Quote (stovokor2000 @ June 13 2010, 2:43 am)
Quote (Ali88 @ June 12 2010, 4:54 pm)
In Star Trek Generations, Kirk dies in a steel bridge wreckage at the bottom of a mountain. Picard pulls kirk's dead body out of the wreckage and then carries it all the way up to the top of the mountain and places big rocks over his dead body

why did he do that?

I'm assuming when Picard met up with his crew, he told them about Kirk's death and one of the rescue ships beamed kirk's body up and he was taken back to Earth for a proper starfleet burial- why not? he's considered the greatest starfleet captain that ever lived wasn't he?

Kirk wasn't staying on that planet

wouldn't it have been more logical to leave Kirk's body in the wreckage and then have a rescue ship beam it up from the wreckage

Imagine you're over at one of your friend's house, alone with him/her and some cupboards or something really big and heavy collapses on him/her and crushes and kills him/her.

You then drag their dead body out in their back garden and place rocks over their dead body and stand over it for some time and then hours later, call for an ambulance and have the dead body taken away

That would be stupid if you did that but it's no different from what Picard did with Kirk- (if Kirk's body was beamed up from veridian III)

if you'll say Picard left kirk's body on Veridian III

Why would Picard do that? isn't that like the most disrespectful thing you could do for Kirk at that point? Just leaving the greatest starfleet captain ever underneath a pile of rocks on a isolated planet in the middle of nowhere, light years away from Earth and never mentioning it to anyone

I will be mentioning this in my video review for star trek generations, it's just one of MANY MANY reasons why Star Trek: Generations is the worst movie that has ever been made

Funny....you talk about whats "logical" with out thinking "logically" yourself.

Picard had absolutely no clue how long it might take for a rescue team to find him, or even if it would at all.

It could have taken hours...days, weeks, Picard just wouldnt know.

Further more covering a body with rocks is not disrespectful....its a form of burial.

And leaving Kirks body out in the open would have allowed it to be tampered with by any possible wild life on the planet.

So when you mention this in your review you might want to add that you really didnt think the question threw.

good point but when kirk died, Picard didn't know the enterprise D got destroyed, he assumed it was still orbiting veridian III so the enterprise could have scanned and locked and beamed Picard up and picard could have had kirk's body beamed up like a very short time after kirk actually died

And if it would take days or weeks for the rescue team to find Pocard, don't you think Picard would have died of thirst and starved to death- where was there any food in the desert?

and let me ask you this, when did an animal or any wildlife actually appear in the desert on Veridian III?

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 7:15 am

Quote (Ali88 @ June 13 2010, 6:59 am)
good point but when kirk died, Picard didn't know the enterprise D got destroyed, he assumed it was still orbiting veridian III so the enterprise could have scanned and locked and beamed Picard up and picard could have had kirk's body beamed up like a very short time after kirk actually died

Completely irrelevant.

Did you actually pay any attention to the film???Sorry if that sounded rude but did you???

Picard knew that they were having trouble scanning the planet surface....they couldnt find any life form or Sorans equament on the planet, it was why he made the deal to have the Klingons beam him down.

So I repeat...."Picard had absolutely no clue how long it might take for a rescue team to find him, or even if it would at all.

It could have taken hours...days, weeks, Picard just wouldnt know."

Further more I find it hard to believe that the Enterprise D suffered a warp core breach, so close to the planet, and Picard wouldnt see some evidence of that on the surface.

Quote

and let me ask you this, when did an animal or any wildlife actually appear in the desert on Veridian III?


Are you suggesting we had to see it to consider its possible??

Boy are you reaching.

The planets eco system was quite diverse, we saw a forest and a desert, both very similar to hear on earth.

Makes sence that some kind of animal and insect life evolved on the planet.

Ali88

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POSTS: 889

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 7:25 am

Quote (stovokor2000 @ June 13 2010, 7:15 am)
Quote (Ali88 @ June 13 2010, 6:59 am)
good point but when kirk died, Picard didn't know the enterprise D got destroyed, he assumed it was still orbiting veridian III so the enterprise could have scanned and locked and beamed Picard up and picard could have had kirk's body beamed up like a very short time after kirk actually died

Completely irrelevant.

Did you actually pay any attention to the film???Sorry if that sounded rude but did you???

Picard knew that they were having trouble scanning the planet surface....they couldnt find any life form or Sorans equament on the planet, it was why he made the deal to have the Klingons beam him down.

So I repeat...."Picard had absolutely no clue how long it might take for a rescue team to find him, or even if it would at all.

It could have taken hours...days, weeks, Picard just wouldnt know."

Further more I find it hard to believe that the Enterprise D suffered a warp core breach, so close to the planet, and Picard wouldnt see some evidence of that on the surface.

Quote

and let me ask you this, when did an animal or any wildlife actually appear in the desert on Veridian III?


Are you suggesting we had to see it to consider its possible??

Boy are you reaching.

The planets eco system was quite diverse, we saw a forest and a desert, both very similar to hear on earth.

Makes sence that some kind of animal and insect life evolved on the planet.

yeah you're right there probably was

but since the desert is so big and there might have been so little animal life there, I'm assuming that no wildlife would have found and eaten kirk's corpse

besides, the animals could have found the rocks and eaten him from there

and another thing, why couldn't the enterprise scan picard and soran

Veridian III is a Class M planet with clear no blue skies all over the planet- Riker said the scanners can't pententrate the ion sphere

what is an ion sphere? i couldn't see any storms or spheres on veridian III that could have interfered with the ship's scanners

stovokor2000

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Report this Jun. 13 2010, 7:37 am

Quote (Ali88 @ June 13 2010, 7:25 am)
yeah you're right there probably was

but since the desert is so big and there might have been so little animal life there, I'm assuming that no wildlife would have found and eaten kirk's corpse

You know what they say when you "assume" right??

Besides, insect life can devour a corpse pretty quickly as well.And who knows how big and fast the insects are on that planet.
Quote

and another thing, why couldn't the enterprise scan picard and soran


Like I said, pay attention to the film.

It was mentioned that they couldnt scan pass the "ionosphere" for some reason they didnt explain.

Worf couldnt find Sorn first, and later couldnt find Picard.
Quote

Veridian III is a Class M planet with clear no blue skies all over the planet- Riker said the scanners can't pententrate the ion sphere

what is an ion sphere? i couldn't see any storms or spheres on veridian III that could have interfered with the ship's scanners


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionosphere

And clear skys arent the only hindrance to good scanning.

In many different episode we have seen/heard of ways that scanning can be blocked.

Pooneil

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POSTS: 1023

Report this Jun. 13 2010, 3:20 pm

That pile of rocks is called a "cairn". It's a way to bury someone when the ground is too hard to dig in and you want to keep the body from being eaten by scavengers. I'm looking out my back window right now and I don't see any animals, but I'm sure as soon as a nice decaying carcass appeared there would be turkey vultures circling, not to mention raccoons and crows and anyone else who wanted a piece. "Generations" was not a nature documentary, so don't expect to see Veridian III's wildlife.

Kirk officially died in the 23rd century when the bit of the Enterprise-B he was standing on was damaged by the Nexus. Big funeral, brass band, everyone in mourning. TV retrospective and biopic, and an unauthorized biography plus a tell-all book about the great captain, written by Sulu. There would be no reason for Picard to beam up Kirk's corpse and go through that all over again.

But most especially, you don't leave dead bodies lying around outside overnight unless you want lots of little critters crawling all over them and eating them.

stovokor2000

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Report this Jun. 13 2010, 3:26 pm

Quote (Pooneil @ June 13 2010, 3:20 pm)
There would be no reason for Picard to beam up Kirk's corpse and go through that all over again.

There is 1 reason.

The Prime Directive.

KeeRock

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POSTS: 352

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 12:25 pm

I didn't think GENERATIONS was the worst film, but I did wonder why Kirk's body was left under a pile of rocks while there were starships in the area.

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