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"The Augments" & "Daedalus"

challengerdyer

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POSTS: 887

Report this Jun. 12 2010, 1:43 pm

Okay, so in "Broken Bow" we have a young Jonathan Archer with his healthy looking Dad and I would say Archer is about 10-12.

Then, in "The Augments" (I think), Archer tells Phlox that his Dad died when he was 10 and the last two years of Henry Archer's life were horrible due to the disease he had.

Then, in "Daedulus" the inventor of the transporter comes aboard and they talk about how close Henry and this guy were and something in there gave me the impression that Henry was still alive when Archer was entering the spaceflight program or like that.


So, what the heck is the timeline for Henry Archer?  Also, the inventor of the transporter knew Zefram Cochrane, but did Henry Archer?  I know Henry Archer developed the Warp 5 engine but when did this happen in relation to Cochrane dissappearing?

Narada

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Report this Jun. 12 2010, 1:48 pm

Quote (challengerdyer @ June 12 2010, 1:43 pm)
Okay, so in "Broken Bow" we have a young Jonathan Archer with his healthy looking Dad and I would say Archer is about 10-12.

Then, in "The Augments" (I think), Archer tells Phlox that his Dad died when he was 10 and the last two years of Henry Archer's life were horrible due to the disease he had.

Then, in "Daedulus" the inventor of the transporter comes aboard and they talk about how close Henry and this guy were and something in there gave me the impression that Henry was still alive when Archer was entering the spaceflight program or like that.


So, what the heck is the timeline for Henry Archer? ¿Also, the inventor of the transporter knew Zefram Cochrane, but did Henry Archer? ¿I know Henry Archer developed the Warp 5 engine but when did this happen in relation to Cochrane dissappearing?

Interesting questions! I do not remember anyone discussing these before. I wish to look further into this.

BrotherofShran01

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Report this Jun. 12 2010, 2:20 pm

Quote (challengerdyer @ June 12 2010, 1:43 pm)
Okay, so in "Broken Bow" we have a young Jonathan Archer with his healthy looking Dad and I would say Archer is about 10-12.

Then, in "The Augments" (I think), Archer tells Phlox that his Dad died when he was 10 and the last two years of Henry Archer's life were horrible due to the disease he had.

Then, in "Daedulus" the inventor of the transporter comes aboard and they talk about how close Henry and this guy were and something in there gave me the impression that Henry was still alive when Archer was entering the spaceflight program or like that.


So, what the heck is the timeline for Henry Archer? ?Also, the inventor of the transporter knew Zefram Cochrane, but did Henry Archer? ?I know Henry Archer developed the Warp 5 engine but when did this happen in relation to Cochrane dissappearing?

The writers did drop the ball on this one. Here is some back ground info on Henry Archer from Memory Alpha:

Quote
Henry Archer was played by actor Mark Moses. It is unknown what became of Henry Archer's biography, though it was presumably published shortly after the events of "Singularity".

There appears to be some contradiction as to when Henry Archer died. Although "Cold Station 12" stated he passed away when Jonathan was only 12 years-old, dialog in "Daedalus" suggests that he was still alive when the younger Archer entered flight training.

In a deleted scene from ENT: "Home", Jonathan Archer visited his father's grave on Earth. According to Henry's grave marker, he was born in 2077 and died in 2133. This would have further contradicted Jonathan's claims that his father died when he was only twelve, in 2124.

BrotherofShran01

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Report this Jun. 12 2010, 2:23 pm

The official bio on Henry Archer from Memory Alpha:

Quote
Henry Archer was the primary developer of the first warp engine capable of reaching warp five, and one of the principal designers of Enterprise NX-01. He was the father of Jonathan Archer, and a good friend of Emory Erickson, the inventor of the transporter on Earth. (ENT: "Broken Bow", "Daedalus")

Henry worked closely with Dr. Zefram Cochrane to develop the warp five engine at the Warp Five Complex in Bozeman, Montana as part of the NX program. (ENT: "Broken Bow")

Prior to Cochrane's disappearance in 2119 (TOS: "Metamorphosis"), Henry took his son Jonathan on a tour of the Warp Five Complex, and introduced the boy to Cochrane, Tasaki, and other scientists working at the facility. Jonathan later revealed he did not know the significance of his father's work at the time. (ENT: "Singularity")

In 2121, Henry helped his son build and fly a remote-controlled starship model. During this time, the elder Archer admonished his son's disrespect for the Vulcans, whom Jonathan believed were responsible for holding back Humanity's advancement into space. Although Henry insisted that Vulcan Ambassador Soval (whom Jonathan referred to as "Ambassador Pointy") had been very helpful, he also expressed confusion and disappointment at the Vulcans' refusal to share their technology, lamenting "they have their reasons. God knows what they are."

Henry assisted Jonathan in flying his model starship on a beach, but the youth found keeping the craft in the air to be difficult. When the toy crashed, Henry advised his son that he "can't be afraid of the wind. Learn to trust it." The younger Archer would take this advise to heart 30 years later when he made the decision to abandon his prejudices against Vulcans and start trusting Subcommander T'Pol. (ENT: "Broken Bow")

On the day before he entered flight training, Jonathan asked his father what would happen if he failed. The elder Archer's response was, "Don't fail." (ENT: "Daedalus")

Henry spent the last two years of his life experiencing frequent pain and hallucinations, talking to people who weren't there, and often not even recognizing his son or wife due to advanced Clarke's Disease. He died in 2124 before his warp five engine could be constructed, since the Vulcans had held back the engine's development program. As a result, Jonathan Archer's resentment towards Vulcans grew into a grudge which held until the 2150s. (ENT: "Broken Bow", "Cold Station 12")

In 2152, a biography on the life of Henry Archer was in the works. Jonathan Archer was asked to write a one-page preface for his father's biography, a task he put off for weeks as he found it difficult to sum up his father's life in one page. He ultimately completed it with feedback from T'Pol. (ENT: "Singularity")

grigori

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Report this Jun. 12 2010, 5:52 pm

They seem to have stretched it a bit, working in Cochrane's association with the Archer's before he departed as well. The novel Federation--I'll have to look at the Cochrane timeline in there. But I don't believe it meshes with ENT very well. :logical:

GalaxyClass14

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POSTS: 396

Report this Jun. 14 2010, 7:14 pm

i am not one who usually
cares too much about picking nits
but this one is a worthy nit.

interesting
and good catch on that.

(there is a cochrane timeline
from tos thru enterprise i think,
that has given me questions too)

Enterprise19

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Report this Jun. 14 2010, 10:00 pm

Maybe Archer joined Starfleet when he was 12?

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jun. 14 2010, 11:44 pm

Quote (Enterprise19 @ June 14 2010, 10:00 pm)
Maybe Archer joined Starfleet when he was 12?

Haha. A prodigy. :D

tishkajaku

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POSTS: 3908

Report this Jun. 15 2010, 11:03 am

This was always a concern of mine, the confusion of Archer's age and the statements given of his dialog and actions with his father at certain ages.  You may have a point there, E19 and Viper. Today there are some educational facilities that cater to younger prodigies, preparing them for their chosen professions, stands to reason it would be so in Archer's time.  Compound that with his father being ill, and it may have made sense for him to go to such a place, where he would be looked after and guided by people that his father already knew and trusted to take care of his son after his death.  I do not recall where Jonathan's mother was at the time, if she were also deceased, then it is even more resaonable for him to be in a Star Fleet Academy for younger students by age 12.  

That's how I would explain it! :laugh:

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this Jun. 15 2010, 11:11 am

I noticed the discrepancies when I watched the show and thought they were somewhat annoying. Tish came up with a good workaround, but I think it really came down to laziness on the writer's part. I'm sort of surprised, though, that SB didn't notice and point it out.

tishkajaku

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Report this Jun. 15 2010, 11:20 am

Thank you, duck.  I just researched on Sally Archer, and did not find any references to her other than being mother and wife to H and J, and the poem she read to Jonathan as a child.  

Another point to make in this scenario: after graduating high school (as we know it here in USA) Archer would have been encouraged to attend a university, preferably one without military aspects, to broaden his horizons, (that's what THIS educator would do) and Stanford would have been a good choice to develop leadership, team work, and frames of references that were not military based.  Such a background would also help explain Archer's diverse abilities in situations, be they diplomatic, military, or just needing to think outside the box.

whyaduck

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Report this Jun. 15 2010, 1:23 pm

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jun. 15 2010, 10:49 pm

Hey, I like your explanation, Tish. Good idea. His father was getting sick, his mother may have already died, so that, compounded with the fact that he was far ahead of the rest of the class in both intelligence and will, may have made it so that Starfleet sort of took him in to both take care of him and advance him educationally.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jun. 16 2010, 12:20 am

I find it amazing how ones have the abilities to take "laziness" on the part of the writers and turn it into a perfectly logical, working solution... do they ever consider hiring trekkies when making new Trek movies and shows?

tishkajaku

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POSTS: 3908

Report this Jun. 16 2010, 12:55 am

I would accept such a proposal!!!  Yes there are quite a few here who have come up with wonderful alternatives to what we had on screen.  Plus the fan fiction and relaunch books add more to our reading pleasure as well as give intriguing continued stories of our ENT crew.

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