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Voyager disappointments

DeannaTRiker

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Report this May. 27 2010, 8:58 pm

I'd like to know what you thought were the disappointments in Voyager. In which ways did it fail? Did fans expect more? Did they grow up? Did stories become more predictable and relationships too simple and not satisfying?

I hope it's OK to create such a thread. I apologize if I am overstepping the bounds of this forum.

TransphasicTorpedoes

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Report this May. 27 2010, 9:03 pm

I like everything about Voyager. Did then, and do now.

TaoTrek

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Report this May. 27 2010, 11:28 pm

I wish the ending gave us more info on what happened after they returned to Earth.

EzrianBashirax

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Report this May. 28 2010, 12:29 am

Character development. Seven of Nine. Chakotay.

ssmukhi

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Report this May. 28 2010, 1:05 am

They never seemed "lost" except for a few episodes like "Demon" and "Year of Hell" , the ship always looked spic and span and rarely did they need to negotiate for supplies. I'm not saying it should look like The Equinox, but the sense of "need" wasn't there.

Also, the ending was too abrupt, plus the use of the time travel "cheat" was too deux ex machina.

DeannaTRiker

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Report this May. 28 2010, 7:02 am

Voyager had a potential to be a really great ST show. For some reason, it was easily becoming the best ST series I've ever seen... it was changed by the end of season 7.

Voyager had a chance to be a really good show on its own terms, just like TOS was in the 60s. The premise was great. A female captain. A Marquis crew forced to work with Starfleet. Wonderful - wonderful pilot.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed Voyager more than any other show. Voyager was great because it had a purpose. Voyager was a combination of DS9, TNG, and TOS. It could have been great!!! But it's hardly an original Trek. Instead, it became a cascade of tried-out tricks -- scenarios... relationships... quests for self-improvement. Doctor, Kes, Neelix, Seven... even Tuvok... Eventually, only Seven becomes fully human, with the original contender, Doctor, dropping out of the race (he thinks it's better to be a hologram).

I've gotten into several major arguments here in the past, and quite frankly I don't care if you agree with me or not. Anybody in their sound mind would see that Voyager became little more than a soap opera in space. Several of its regular characters got mistreated and mariginalized, and it's not just my imagination, it's what they they thought as well. I bring in a new look at Star Trek (after G.R.). I'm not obsessed with actors and what they say. I'm fairly new to Star Trek (less than 3 years). But since almost the beginning I was worried about Chakotay and he's the one (the actor) that had the most problems with Voyager. I could see it by the fact that he was mostly eliminated from the special features, and yet still had something positive to contribute when he talked about "Chakotay."

Of course, I have just finished watching the show for the first time. It takes a long time to go through all the seven seasons, and they are quite a bit different from each other (especially since Kes was replaced by Seven). I may not remember everything. But I remember this -- even though Chakotay had his own episodes, in other episodes he seemed barely part of the crew. In contrast, B'Elanna was quickly accepted as part of Starfleet. Chakotay had to earn Janeway's trust. In fact, the change doesn't come until 5th season when he is suddenly featured as a main character in several episodes (doing a little catching up, are we?). He also seems to, suddenly, have trust of all the crew. It only proves my impression that the writers had no plan and no idea what was going to happen with the crew. I wondered -- was he not liked by the ST fans? Could he not act? It was really hard to tell, BECAUSE HE WAS PREVENTED FROM PROVING HIMSELF. (In the meantime, the guy had classical training, just like Patrick Stewart. And I only know this because Tim Russ mentioned it in an interview. *sigh* ) You can't just ignore a ST regular. It looks really bad.

I felt a similar compassion for Tuvok. He's a Vulcan and Captain's friend of many years. But he is not really shown much because he's a Vulcan -- a story we've explored before -- and he's been replaced by Chakotay, only Chakotay is not really shown much either. (He suffered a case worse than Riker, until the writers decided to compensate him in 7th season.)

Maybe there were too many regulars this time????!!! Maybe the crew of humans, Vulcans, and Klingons has gotten too boring to have any kind of impact on the fan base?

Maybe everything seemed to be happenninig too fast? The Maquis and Starfleet adjusted too fast. The Doctor explored too many options ... too fast.

Why, in the 7 years of grim-chance-of-returning-to-the-Alpha-quadrant, so few people paired up and had children?

Why were the regulars left with such a bleak future?

The ending... "Endgame"... the hasty wrapping up of the series really cheapened the show. I was going to buy the series... I have not bought any other series before... but the pilot really ruined everything.

SupremeAdmiralBeviKathiK

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Report this May. 28 2010, 7:36 am

I didn't like endgame. I like the consequent books involving Janeway tho.

exeter276

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Report this May. 28 2010, 9:53 am

I really liked Voyager also, and don't get how so many continue to bag on the series. I thought it would have been cool if the voyage took them a lot longer maybe even breeding a replacement crew for when the older crew members aged or died. I liked the "Lost In Space" aspect of the series.

My main disappointment was when they found the USS Equinox. IMO it would have been cool if Captain Ransom and crew weren't violating the Prime Directive and they could have had a convoy of federation ships make it home.

TransphasicTorpedoes

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Report this May. 28 2010, 6:01 pm

Yep, Ransom was a bit crude ..even corrupt compared to the pure Janeway. He helped in the end though. Good episode.

DeannaTRiker

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Report this May. 28 2010, 8:43 pm

Voyager had entertainment value. But some characters stopped growing after several seasons. The many friendships and loyalties were not played upon. There was too much telling rather than showing. The bringing-Seven-back-to-humanity arc took 4 years and took up most of the time needed to develop other characters. In "Endgame", Seven completes the final "step." What a joke. I could totally see that they were setting up Seven for martyrdom, in the tradition of Spock and Data. And then they changed their mind. Which is also a good thing, I suppose. But then Tuvok seems to want to step up and "sacrifice" himself.

It is just not clear in this show what the main theme is. On one hand, Janeway keeps adhering to Starfleet rules. On the other, she's just as happy to break them. Sure, she's confused (who wouldn't be in her place). But it makes it so much harder to judge her decisions.

My point is, if you are writing a book or creating a ST series, have a plan and follow it to the end, so that things make much more sense. After so much previous success, it should have been obvious what the formula for success was. I believe that ST fans wanted to see more than they have seen in previous shows and movies: deeper relationships, more ethical issues...

The imagination of the creators was flawless. This was a great and unique quadrant.

DeannaTRiker

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Report this May. 29 2010, 2:25 am

Quote (Yanks @ May 27 2010, 11:13 pm)
Quote (DeannaTRiker @ May 27 2010, 8:58 pm)
I'd like to know what you thought were the disappointments in Voyager. In which ways did it fail? Did fans expect more? Did they grow up? Did stories become more predictable and relationships too simple and not satisfying?

I hope it's OK to create such a thread. I apologize if I am overstepping the bounds of this forum.

- Neelix and Kes relationship :sick: robbing the cradle anyone?
- Kes leaving, she should have remained as Doc's assistant.
- Numbing down of species 8472 and the Hirogen.

Didn't have a problem with how they used Chuckles. J/C was never going to happen, nor should it have. Didn't have a problem with the Maquis integrating either. Their beef was with the Federation, not Star Fleet.

"Chuckles"? Is that how you call Chakotay?

brcarthey

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Report this May. 29 2010, 11:27 am

Quote (Yanks @ May 28 2010, 10:13 pm)
Quote (DeannaTRiker @ May 27 2010, 8:58 pm)
I'd like to know what you thought were the disappointments in Voyager. In which ways did it fail? Did fans expect more? Did they grow up? Did stories become more predictable and relationships too simple and not satisfying?

I hope it's OK to create such a thread. I apologize if I am overstepping the bounds of this forum.

- Neelix and Kes relationship :sick: robbing the cradle anyone?
- Kes leaving, she should have remained as Doc's assistant.
- Numbing down of species 8472 and the Hirogen.

Didn't have a problem with how they used Chuckles. J/C was never going to happen, nor should it have. Didn't have a problem with the Maquis integrating either. Their beef was with the Federation, not Star Fleet.

i believe the maquis' beef was more with cardassia rather than the federation since starfleet was the military branch of the federation.

Lynx677

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Report this May. 29 2010, 1:59 pm

I have to say that when it comes to entertainment and TV series, Voyager became a great dissapointment for me. But for some strange reason, I still love the series, the characters and the original premise for the series.

Voyager was one of the few series I've watched where I took an immediate liking to ALL the main characters and the whole series from the first episode. There are a few others, most notably NCIS but Voyager is the number 1 in this matter.

I liked the characters, the premise for the seies and all about it. OK, I could notice some minor flaws here and there but it didn't change my opinion about the series.

Unfortunately, Voyager did start to run out of steam in season 3. I really like season 3 but it had more weak episodes than season 1 and 2 and it looked like the writes got lost themselves when Voyager got out of Kazon space. Still, I continued to love the  series.

But then came the changes in season 4. Kes was dumped, the new character Seven took over the show and the great original characters, except for Janeway and The Doc became moving images in the background.

I also became annoyed with the way the writers and producers handled the show. The longer the series went on, the more erratic and uninspired the stories were. They had some great ideas from the start which they just abandoned. No more encounter with the female Caretaker, Species 8472 abandoned, characters like Gerron, Chell, Dalby and Henley never showed up again. There are more examples. And where went the premise about exploring the galaxy and meeting new species?

Instead the writers and producers fell back on cheap tricks: "More explosions! The fans love explosions." "Let's bring in a sexy babe. The fans love sexy babes". "Let's bring in the Borg as the main enemy. The fans love the Borg". "Let's have some TNG characters jumping on and off the ship. The fans love TNG."

At the same time they did show the finger to many loyal fans with the way they brought back Kes-just to ruin her. And "Endgame" with that C/7 thing which annoyed many loyal fans.

Not to mention that the character destruction and the destruction of all that Voyager ever was is continuing in the current books.

But despite all that ruined the series and made me dissapointed, I still love Voyager for what it once was and the characters who I find the best in any Star Trek series.

I do have the season 1-3 DVD:s, some books from the same era and there are some good fanfiction to find out there where there's no character destruction and dissapointments.

So for me, Voyager lives on at its best.  :)

HaventGotALife

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Report this May. 29 2010, 11:23 pm

Voyager is a disappointment. I didn't like the production design, the ship design, the choice of actors, the storylines, the character development, the camera-work, the scripts, the problems, the aliens, the concept of destroying the array to help the Ocampa, the resolution by using a Time-change and Borg technology to get everyone home and not because of some titanic or collasal event transpired, but simply because Janeway missed Seven and Chakotay. There is very little of this show I liked. I cannot believe it was on the air for seven years. I wanted it cancelled after the first.

Enterprise19

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Report this May. 30 2010, 12:03 am

I'm disappointed that some people hate the show and only post to tell how much they hate it. Oh well, it's a free country, ain't it(if you're American)?

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