Star Trek

Quote (whyaduck @ June 01 2010, 5:11 pm)

Hoo boy, here we go again. If you'd read the discussions about this episode, a lot of people don't think it was rape of any kind.

Fine, next time you start a review thread i suggest you make the title:

Episode review - XXXXX, a lot of people think (insert opinion) please agree with them.....

Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 02 2010, 1:55 pm)

Quote (whyaduck @ June 01 2010, 5:11 pm) Hoo boy, here we go again. If you'd read the discussions about this episode, a lot of people don't think it was rape of any kind. Fine, next time you start a review thread i suggest you make the title: Episode review - XXXXX, a lot of people think (insert opinion) please agree with them.....

This topic has been discussed at length with people giving their reasons for believing that it was or wasn't rape. They didn't just jump in, make a statement, and then leave. Of course, you can give your opinion, but please discuss it. Don't just swoop in, throw in an incendiary statement, and swoop out again. Sounds too much like the trolls who post here only to stir things up.

Quote (whyaduck @ June 02 2010, 2:24 pm)

Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 02 2010, 1:55 pm) Quote (whyaduck @ June 01 2010, 5:11 pm) Hoo boy, here we go again. If you'd read the discussions about this episode, a lot of people don't think it was rape of any kind. Fine, next time you start a review thread i suggest you make the title: Episode review - XXXXX, a lot of people think (insert opinion) please agree with them..... This topic has been discussed at length with people giving their reasons for believing that it was or wasn't rape. They didn't just jump in, make a statement, and then leave. Of course, you can give your opinion, but please discuss it. Don't just swoop in, throw in an incendiary statement, and swoop out again. Sounds too much like the trolls who post here only to stir things up.

Fair enough although i must have missed the counter arguments unless they are in another thread..

If we ever do develop interstella travel and start interacting with other species i do think that it would be polite to mention how certain physical interactions are how we mate and breed BEFORE doing them to a unsuspecting alien.

Calling it a "game" is hardly what i would call a accurate description considering it is how the species in question reproduces, in fact its the sort of thing a pedophile would say to a child. The female alien took advantage of Trips ignorance, lied to him about the process and its intent and possible effect and her reply after they finally confronted her was that she did not think he would get pregnant.

And the entire thing was aparantly the writers idea of a "comedy" plot as Archer amoung others seemed to find it all very amusing

I can see it now "Welcome to earth now please bend over so i can slip you our traditional greeting"..........

Quote (grigori @ May 21 2010, 7:17 am)

Quote (BrotherofShran01 @ May 21 2010, 5:34 am) Even thought there were some funny moments, it was not really worth it. As far as the Xyrillians, they were okay. they could have asked for help instead of causing problems for another ship. Ah, but Bro, the "funny" part was only SECONDARY to the REAL message, which they couldn't have had at all without the Xyrillians "causing problems" for the NX-01--in a variety of ways. The point is, Archer and his crew were willing to look beyond even the most EXTREME of offenses--damage to their ship, pregnancy, the hours of decompression--because they had the patience to see that the aliens were well-meaning. They didn't rush to take offense and make an enemy, but rather talked it out with the aliens. Which Klingons don't do. I don't think the gist of Unexpected was to mainly play the pregnancy for laughs. There was a violation and a serious offense; that was the whole point in service of the larger message.

Thanks, Kor Dahar Master, for coming back and talking with us. I'm bumping my earlier comments. Also:



Give us half a chance over here on ENT; we really do like a good argument.

Kor Dahar Master, your thoughts are well spoken, and I do see your point from our human perspective.  I do take into consideration that other species have a different view to mating and procreation from us, and therefore take the action by Ah'len in such a vein, as it seems that Trip and the crew of Enterprise did as well.  As for making it a giggling matter, yes, sometimes we humans laugh at inappropriate moments, and this may have been one of them on the part of the crew towards Trip ( and by the writers ) .  I will own up that I have laughed at the wrong time, but in my defense, I either did not understand the true situation at first, or I was actually 'laughing' at my own dismay or discomfort at an unexpected turn of events.  (And I did not use unexpected here on purpose for the thread, it just came out at that moment in my thoughts.. I wonder is that is another play on words meant by the writers?! )

I agree with grigori, we do like a good argument, we are very open to other's POV, even if it is different from ours, and we like having new people post their thoughts.  Please know you are welcome here.

Quote (tishkajaku @ June 02 2010, 9:18 pm)

I agree with grigori, we do like a good argument, we are very open to other's POV, even if it is different from ours, and we like having new people post their thoughts. ¿Please know you are welcome here.

Absolutely.

Kor Dahar Master - welcome and join in on some of the other threads.

It seems that the idea of a pregant male has been used as a point of humor many times. Look at the movie "Junior", the Governator pregnant!!! See what a hit that movie was?

Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 01 2010, 6:34 pm)

Quote (whyaduck @ June 02 2010, 2:24 pm) Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 02 2010, 1:55 pm) Quote (whyaduck @ June 01 2010, 5:11 pm) Hoo boy, here we go again. If you'd read the discussions about this episode, a lot of people don't think it was rape of any kind. Fine, next time you start a review thread i suggest you make the title: Episode review - XXXXX, a lot of people think (insert opinion) please agree with them..... This topic has been discussed at length with people giving their reasons for believing that it was or wasn't rape. They didn't just jump in, make a statement, and then leave. Of course, you can give your opinion, but please discuss it. Don't just swoop in, throw in an incendiary statement, and swoop out again. Sounds too much like the trolls who post here only to stir things up. Fair enough although i must have missed the counter arguments unless they are in another thread.. If we ever do develop interstella travel and start interacting with other species i do think that it would be polite to mention how certain physical interactions are how we mate and breed BEFORE doing them to a unsuspecting alien. Calling it a "game" is hardly what i would call a accurate description considering it is how the species in question reproduces, in fact its the sort of thing a pedophile would say to a child. The female alien took advantage of Trips ignorance, lied to him about the process and its intent and possible effect and her reply after they finally confronted her was that she did not think he would get pregnant. And the entire thing was aparantly the writers idea of a "comedy" plot as Archer amoung others seemed to find it all very amusing I can see it now "Welcome to earth now please bend over so i can slip you our traditional greeting"..........

Well put. It wasn't funny. Rape usually isn't.

We don't know enough about Ah'len's culture, intentions, or frame of mind, or even what constitutes sex among members of her OWN species, to knee-jerk label this as rape. For all we know, the same action would NOT be enough to impregnate a Xyrillian male--perhaps they are at most or all times so pregnancy-proofed biologically (till they choose to gestate a child), that the box of pebbles really IS harmless recreation among Xyrillians. That's how Ah'len treated it.

(Ah'len did not expect Trip to get pregnant. Trip CHOSE to put his fingers in a box of pebbles. No one believed anyone was forced into a certain action, or would be impregnated against his will.)

The crew of the NX-01 chose to wait for more information before making the assessment that it was rape, and so should the viewers.

Conversely, we're given the episode Fusion where no technical rape occurs, but when one takes into account the intentions to violate (which seemed by all accounts to be absent in Unexpected), we do come to the logical conclusion that there WAS a sort of rape. Once again: spirit of the law, not letter of the law.

We're given the ability to reason and make subtle determinations, and the crew of the NX-01 know that doing so is absolutely necessary among species that are truly alien. This isn't your cosmopolitan galaxy of the 23rd century here where rules of inter-action are better established.

Quote (grigori @ May 21 2010, 7:17 am)

To respond further: I GET your response to the episode, and furthermore, I'm quite certain it WAS the first intended response by the writers! The whole point of the episode was to show an offense SO EXTREME as to test the humans' seriousness about getting along with other aliens and giving them enough latitude to find out about the HUGE cultural differences, rather than taking offense without explaining their OWN cultural norms (like the Kreetassans), or taking offense AND blowing the offenders away (like the Klingons).

Ok now IF the episode had been written in such a way it would be different.

IF at the point we learn Trip was pregnant Archer and crew had been initially shocked and angry but had to overcome those emotions and had re-evaluated their sense of human morality now they are "out there" meeting new alien cultures it would have been a FANTASTIC and ground breaking episode.

It would have helped show how the characters and crew from the enterprise era who are new to exploration and discovery paved the way for the crews in the later eras not only in regards to discovery and technology but also in morality and acceptance regarding other species customs. It would have also been the perfect platform from which to mention or even implement the rule about getting permission from the ships doctor before having "relations" with aliens.

But instead we got giggles, Trip getting "hormonal" and later him losing it because of a poorly placed hand rail (and do not get me started on that scene).


If i seem a little passionate about my distaste or dislike for this episode it is because the potential was there for it to be LEGENDARY in its message, SUPERB in its character development and WONDERFUL in its continuity regarding the rules and enlightened morality shown in the later eras.

We are talking about a Episode that would have challenged "In the pale moonlight" in regards to message impact but instead of doing so by being anathema to Roddenberry's vision "Unexpected" would have confirmed, supported and reinforced it.



/Rant over, sorry about that i got a bit carried away.

PS: Thanks for all the welcomes il try not to be so preachy and long winded in future.

Quote (Kor_Dahar_Master @ June 03 2010, 1:36 pm)

IF at the point we learn Trip was pregnant Archer and crew had been initially shocked and angry but had to overcome those emotions and had re-evaluated their sense of human morality now they are "out there" meeting new alien cultures it would have been a FANTASTIC and ground breaking episode. If i seem a little passionate about my distaste or dislike for this episode it is because the potential was there for it to be LEGENDARY in its message, SUPERB in its character development and WONDERFUL in its continuity regarding the rules and enlightened morality shown in the later eras. /Rant over, sorry about that i got a bit carried away.

omg!! I suspected you'd be good at this. preach all you want!

I sort of...agree. The problem with having a PhD in lit is I'm all too good at wrenching out a writer's intent and message, even if s/he doesn't do the best job at delivering it.

I agree. "Potential" is a word that gets batted about with ENT a lot. I appreciate them going out on a limb with subjects (the very reason the indigenous trolls don't like it), but agree at the awkward handling at times.