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"How William Shatner Changed the World"

challengerdyer

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 887

Report this May. 15 2010, 11:41 am

So there was this show on History Channel or Discovery called "How William Shatner Changed the World" hosted by WS, and all about ST and the technology and innovations that it has inspired. ANYWAY, at the end of the show he is commenting on the decline of Star Trek's popularity and is referring to the spinoffs when he gets to post-Voyager......he says, "...and worse was to come." As he says this the opening title for ENTERPRISE appears on screen.  WS comments that ENTERPRISE only lasted four seasons, and then he moves on to NEMESIS being a flop at the box office.


William Shatner does not say things he does not want to say.  If we as fans have learned anything about WS it is that he controls every word that is written for him to say in whatever he does.  I believe this whole-heartedly.  I love WS for giving us Kirk, and for giving us HIS Kirk. But,....


We might all remember that B&B were trying HARD to get WS onto Star Trek: Enterprise in some form, and probably in an effort to save the show in the process.  And for whatever reason they could not come up with an acceptable storyline or timeframe for WS to appear.  I wonder now if that was really the case, or did WS just despise ST:E?  Did he resent being upstaged as the "first" Captain?


I would think this line could have been written as: " Unfortunately, the news only got worse for the fourth spin-off Star Trek: Enterprise.  With declining ratings, the show lasted only four seasons."

Not: "...and worse was to come."  You also have to hear the WAY he says it, too.  Maybe it's just me, I don't know, but this has always stuck in my craw and I finally had to post it and see what you thought about it.

ThankYouGeneR

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POSTS: 422

Report this May. 15 2010, 12:32 pm

He is a truly unique and perhaps eccentric individual whose characters WilliamT.Kirk and DennyCrane I absolutely adore. I even have fun watching his commercials and MissCongeniality movies. Now, that said, I must include that I have never ever taken him seriously in anything. His Kirk is now and always shall be Oh-captain-my-captain-Kirk. Nothing will ever ever ever change that. Ever.

Buuuuuutttttt, as a person I recognize him to travel to the beat of a different drum.

I just can not see anything he says or does as anything but entertainment (whether it be good or bad) and please don't ever tell him this because he takes himself very seriously at times. His books, blogs, music, interviews, off hand comments, everything, just entertainment to me, for though he is a favorite favorite guy of mine he is also one whom I would not want forming my conclusions or directing my opinions.

I would like to see this show to which you refer because I never tire of him. He is so unique (and eccentric probably). Is it on the air now?

As for viewers being swayed by him and his comments on StarTrek as truth from above or that he speaks anything but facts as he interprets them... that would surprise me. I have not yet known persons who take him that seriously. Myself and the people I know value him for the unique (and possibly eccentric) artist he is and also recognize this man speaks for himself in everything. As you mentioned, no one puts words in his mouth with complete success.

If I can find this show I will be pleased to incorporate it into my growing StarTrek library. I will not take it as gospel, canon, or any such serious thing. It will be William Shatner holding forth again on the subject of StarTrek.

grigori

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POSTS: 10463

Report this May. 15 2010, 1:16 pm

Yup, I sure did notice that slight in that particular documentary. I let it slide, for all the reasons TYGR so diplomatically outlines. :)

cptdon

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POSTS: 320

Report this May. 15 2010, 6:58 pm

I can't help but agree, I always have thought Enterprise was poor Trek and re-watching season one convinced me that I was right. Season Four rocks so I will give season three a shot, but I turned from Trek because of Enterprise and Voyager. I am back now and as I said I love season four of ENT but as a whole, no. Hell I liked season four so much I am reading the books now. So I guess it was just poor execution of an Okay idea. So maybe Shatner and I don't agree totally.

tishkajaku

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3908

Report this May. 15 2010, 7:27 pm

I just saw the documentary on that auction....it was cool that fans got to have a part of Trek, but I did have a sinking feeling when I realized it was a strong indication that a series Trek may not be in the near future.  Sigh.

MaxwellPowert

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 426

Report this May. 16 2010, 12:42 am

Quote (challengerdyer @ May 15 2010, 11:41 am)
So there was this show on History Channel or Discovery called "How William Shatner Changed the World" hosted by WS, and all about ST and the technology and innovations that it has inspired. ANYWAY, at the end of the show he is commenting on the decline of Star Trek's popularity and is referring to the spinoffs when he gets to post-Voyager......he says, "...and worse was to come." As he says this the opening title for ENTERPRISE appears on screen. ¿WS comments that ENTERPRISE only lasted four seasons, and then he moves on to NEMESIS being a flop at the box office.


William Shatner does not say things he does not want to say. ¿If we as fans have learned anything about WS it is that he controls every word that is written for him to say in whatever he does. ¿I believe this whole-heartedly. ¿I love WS for giving us Kirk, and for giving us HIS Kirk. But,....


We might all remember that B&B were trying HARD to get WS onto Star Trek: Enterprise in some form, and probably in an effort to save the show in the process. ¿And for whatever reason they could not come up with an acceptable storyline or timeframe for WS to appear. ¿I wonder now if that was really the case, or did WS just despise ST:E? ¿Did he resent being upstaged as the "first" Captain?


I would think this line could have been written as: " Unfortunately, the news only got worse for the fourth spin-off Star Trek: Enterprise. ¿With declining ratings, the show lasted only four seasons."

Not: "...and worse was to come." ¿You also have to hear the WAY he says it, too. ¿Maybe it's just me, I don't know, but this has always stuck in my craw and I finally had to post it and see what you thought about it.

I believe one of the reasons Shatner never appeared on Enterprise was that he was asking for too much money.

chator56

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 498

Report this May. 16 2010, 1:36 am

So they credit WS with the invention of the cell-phone? Isn't that like Al Gore taking credit for the Internet? C'mon! James Kirk was a clone of J.J. Adams (not Abrams!;) from "Forbidden Planet", and much of the tech in the original series was inspired by that film. But I think Kirk did change the world indirectly by influencing many people. And Star Trek definately has had a significant cultural impact, and made Roddenberry famous and rich, not to mention Paramount Pictures. But to credit Shatner with all that is well...UNFAIR! Spock was equally as popular a character if not more, and what about all the writers and producers?

whyaduck

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3478

Report this May. 16 2010, 9:53 am

Quote (chator56 @ May 16 2010, 1:36 am)
So they credit WS with the invention of the cell-phone? Isn't that like Al Gore taking credit for the Internet? C'mon! James Kirk was a clone of J.J. Adams (not Abrams!;) from "Forbidden Planet", and much of the tech in the original series was inspired by that film. But I think Kirk did change the world indirectly by influencing many people. And Star Trek definately has had a significant cultural impact, and made Roddenberry famous and rich, not to mention Paramount Pictures. But to credit Shatner with all that is well...UNFAIR! Spock was equally as popular a character if not more, and what about all the writers and producers?

I've never seen the show, so I don't know what Shatner claimed, but I do have to clear up a misconception.

Al Gore never said he invented the Internet. He said in an interview (unfortunately worded) that he pushed through initiatives that led in that direction. When he was a senator, he supported funding for NSFNet through the High Performance Computing Act that became law in 1991.

Vint Cerf (often considered "the father of the Internet") wrote the following:
Al Gore and the Internet
By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf
Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the
Internet and to promote and support its development.


Complete article here:
http://www.interesting-people.org/archive....52.html

Now back to "How William Shatner Changed the World." Is it worth buying a copy of it on DVD?

grigori

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10463

Report this May. 16 2010, 8:29 pm

Quote (whyaduck @ May 16 2010, 9:53 am)
Now back to "How William Shatner Changed the World." Is it worth buying a copy of it on DVD?

Not really--there isn't anything new there that Trekkers don't already know. It looks like it was aimed at folks who don't know Trek at all.

Besides, they re-run it a lot (albeit maybe in the 2nd hundred channels).

whyaduck

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3478

Report this May. 16 2010, 11:14 pm

Quote (grigori @ May 16 2010, 8:29 pm)
Quote (whyaduck @ May 16 2010, 9:53 am)
Now back to "How William Shatner Changed the World." Is it worth buying a copy of it on DVD?

Not really--there isn't anything new there that Trekkers don't already know. It looks like it was aimed at folks who don't know Trek at all.

Besides, they re-run it a lot (albeit maybe in the 2nd hundred channels).

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for it on tv.

TaoTrek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 793

Report this May. 16 2010, 11:38 pm

Quote (challengerdyer @ May 15 2010, 9:41 am)
So there was this show on History Channel or Discovery called "How William Shatner Changed the World" hosted by WS, and all about ST and the technology and innovations that it has inspired. ANYWAY, at the end of the show he is commenting on the decline of Star Trek's popularity and is referring to the spinoffs when he gets to post-Voyager......he says, "...and worse was to come." As he says this the opening title for ENTERPRISE appears on screen. ¿WS comments that ENTERPRISE only lasted four seasons, and then he moves on to NEMESIS being a flop at the box office.


William Shatner does not say things he does not want to say. ¿If we as fans have learned anything about WS it is that he controls every word that is written for him to say in whatever he does. ¿I believe this whole-heartedly. ¿I love WS for giving us Kirk, and for giving us HIS Kirk. But,....


We might all remember that B&B were trying HARD to get WS onto Star Trek: Enterprise in some form, and probably in an effort to save the show in the process. ¿And for whatever reason they could not come up with an acceptable storyline or timeframe for WS to appear. ¿I wonder now if that was really the case, or did WS just despise ST:E? ¿Did he resent being upstaged as the "first" Captain?


I would think this line could have been written as: " Unfortunately, the news only got worse for the fourth spin-off Star Trek: Enterprise. ¿With declining ratings, the show lasted only four seasons."

Not: "...and worse was to come." ¿You also have to hear the WAY he says it, too. ¿Maybe it's just me, I don't know, but this has always stuck in my craw and I finally had to post it and see what you thought about it.

*ugh* I know what you mean. When I first saw that special, I didn't watch trek or ENT enough to really care. But looking back on it, it really does seem insulting at times. :eyesroll:

Angrybearsfan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 105

Report this May. 17 2010, 12:47 am

Star Trek Movies, like Bond Movies, are only as good as their main villain.  Khan was the best villain, and most people think of that movie as the best of the TOS cast movies.  The Borg Queen in First Contact is generally regarded as the best TNG movie villain and it is no surprise that First Contact is the best TNG movie.

As for the series, it ALL comes down to the Captains.  Kirk and Picard were GREAT, no surprise those series were great.  Sisko was pretty good, DS9 was a good series, but not great.  Voyager was hit or miss, usually miss....and Mulgrew was average at best as a Captain.  

And Bakula, who you would think would be great as a Captain, totally stunk up the joint as an actor on Enterprise.  He seemed hollow, indecisive, and the way he said his lines he lacked the punch that Stewart had (as a great actor) and Shatner had with his corny delivery that worked.

Enterprise had a lot of things going for it.  Better effects, a known story line with plenty of room to expand, the writing was good for a television series (ok, some episodes stunk) but Bakula's poor acting held that series back a lot.

I think that a great voice makes a great captain.  Sisko with his booming voice, Picard with his refined diction, Shatner with his, er Shaternisms.

Kelsey Grammar would make an excellent Captain.  He was great in that TNG episode (Morgan Bates).  That episode made you want them to do more with that character in terms of TV.  I could easily see him playing a wry and sophisticated Captain, maybe set it 200 years after TNG so you can do new things.

tishkajaku

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3908

Report this May. 17 2010, 1:14 am

I actually liked Bakula's acting on Enterprise....he took a broad turn from eager, open, team oriented explorer leader to tried, tempered, imperfect warrior leader, and the range of emotions portrayed during this evolution of Archer (to name another thread content!  ) was incredible.  It may be that I am always appreciative of an actor that can be subtle in portrayals, and not hit their audience over the head with emoting.....which appeals to my intellectual AND emotional response to a show.  Well done, all, in Enterprise, for the most part......  because we know not anything is perfect.

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this May. 17 2010, 9:56 am

Quote (tishkajaku @ May 17 2010, 1:14 am)
I actually liked Bakula's acting on Enterprise....he took a broad turn from eager, open, team oriented explorer leader to tried, tempered, imperfect warrior leader, and the range of emotions portrayed during this evolution of Archer (to name another thread content! ¿) was incredible. ¿It may be that I am always appreciative of an actor that can be subtle in portrayals, and not hit their audience over the head with emoting.....which appeals to my intellectual AND emotional response to a show. ¿Well done, all, in Enterprise, for the most part...... ¿because we know not anything is perfect.

Exactly. I thought Bakula's captain was wonderful. Loved watching him evolve over the series. He's a thinking actor. You can see him listening and thinking over what is being said to him (not just responding to lines).

As to the other captains, Sisko would have been good if the actor portraying him didn't consistently over emote. Having a great voice isn't enough. (See how opinions differ greatly.)

Middleman

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POSTS: 3657

Report this May. 17 2010, 12:43 pm

We all love Shant for the character he created; no one else can ever be Kirk (did you hear that Chris Pine?). However, Shant is also widely acknowledged for being a jackass. Not one of his co-stars liked him .... and to this day they will tell you that. He shoots his mouth off and is insulting to everyone, so why should his stupid comments surprise anyone. The thing is, you can't take him seriously. He's admitted to not even watching his own Trek series much less the others. I'll bet he didn't see one single episode of Enterprise.

Why you should take Shant with a grain of salt:
His own series lasted only three season, with the third season a gift from Lucille Ball (she begged NBC not to cancel it after Season 2).
His acting in TOS was no better than Bakula's was in ENT. No one can over act more than Shant (except for David Caruso ... maybe).
If it wasn't for the success of Star Wars, he never would have gotten to be Kirk again in the movies.
Also, he is pretty bitter with the "powers that be" that he has been excluded from all new Trek.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Shant for his Kirk (and his Denny Crane), and there is no argument that he knows how to make money, but you just can't ignore the fact that as an individual ... he's a jackass. One also would wonder if he was a bit resentful that B&B wrote Archer as a more important character to Federation history than Kirk was. Shant has been known to be nasty to those who steal his spotlight,

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