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Xindi, Vulcans, S-31, Malcolm

Serit

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POSTS: 722

Report this May. 09 2010, 1:09 am

I was away this weekend, and I was working on a fic (writing, by hand, in a notebook--tres old-school), when this thought hit me:

The Xindi attack Earth; Starfleet knows that the Vulcans have better engines, better defensive shields, and better weaponry. Someone tell me, please, why the heck Malcolm Reed wasn't on the line to his Section 31 snake er, former handler, with a request (demand) like: "I don't care what you have to do or who you have to kill, but you get that Vulcan shielding and phased weaponry to me by last week, or you can kiss your shiny 22nd century Earth goodbye!"

The fact that Section 31 didn't steal Vulcan technology to fight the Xindi raises thequestion, why the heck didn't they?!

Would anyone like to comment or speculate? Other than what my ever-logic-lovin' spouse Semek said, when I brought it up to him, "You expect logic from television executives?!"

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this May. 09 2010, 1:24 am

Very simple answer.

Just stealing the tech does not mean they would have been able to use it.

They would have had to find a way to adapt it to their systems......to power it with and alternate power source.....to learn how to use it and repair it when something went wrong.

Its true that Tucker seemed to be able to fix just about everything.......but to assume every peace of Vulcan tech was compatible and useable would be ignorant.

No offense intended.

Serit

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POSTS: 722

Report this May. 09 2010, 1:43 am

Quote (stovokor2000 @ May 09 2010, 1:24 am)
Very simple answer.
Just stealing the tech does not mean they would have been able to use it.
They would have had to find a way to adapt it to their systems... to power it with an alternate power source... to learn how to use it and repair it when something went wrong.
It's true that Tucker seemed to be able to fix just about everything... but to assume every piece of Vulcan tech was compatible and useable would be ignorant.
No offense intended.

My mistake--I should have been specific--when I referred to "stealing Vulcan technology" I meant stealing plans and schematics, as well as samples. You have valid points, however, but we didn't even see an instance where anyone tried to steal plans/schematics for the tech. We didn't even see Archer or Tucker ask/beg T'Pol to give them schematics, which, as desperate/vengeful as they were by the middle of S.3, I would have thought they would have done.

My thought is that stealing the plans/schematics for shields, Warp 7 engines, ¿and phased energy weaponry would provide a foundation for bright minds (like Tucker and Reed) to reverse engineer these things to fit on Enterprise NX-01.

rab24

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POSTS: 5385

Report this May. 09 2010, 2:00 am

First, you pre-suppose that Section 31 is far enough removed from Vulcan Intelligence to do something like this. Section 31 may have started on Earth with the Starfleet charter, but everything about it is much more vulcan.

Second, the NX-01 was already getting a bunch of upgrades. Upgrades take time to install and then test for compatability. They needed to go, so further enhancements were out of the question.

Third, Warp 7 engines might have been nice, but why give it to the NX-01? Vulcans already had sent 2 ships into the Expanse and determined no threats were coming from there. Why give away your biggest tactical advantage in the region to a longshot theory when you are holding those cards?

Fourth, just because Malcolm had history with Section 31, doesn't mean he would have any such pull.

RomulanValdore

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POSTS: 123

Report this May. 09 2010, 3:58 am

Something else i don't get about the new movie and relating to Enterprise. How come Daniels and his "watch dog buddies" as Archer called them, not see Nero altering the time line, go back in time and correct the situation?

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this May. 09 2010, 11:17 am

Quote (Serit @ May 09 2010, 1:43 am)
My mistake--I should have been specific--when I referred to "stealing Vulcan technology" I meant stealing plans and schematics, as well as samples.

Dont worry about it.

But I also think its a bit naive to assume that even with plans and schematics it would have been possible to create new/adapt Vulcan tech in the time they had.

Quote
 You have valid points, however, but we didn't even see an instance where anyone tried to steal plans/schematics for the tech. We didn't even see Archer or Tucker ask/beg T'Pol to give them schematics, which, as desperate/vengeful as they were by the middle of S.3, I would have thought they would have done.


Well if they already knew it wasnt compatible, of that they wouldnt have enough time to adapt,  they wouldnt have bothered asking.

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this May. 09 2010, 11:19 am

Quote (RomulanValdore @ May 09 2010, 3:58 am)
Something else i don't get about the new movie and relating to Enterprise. How come Daniels and his "watch dog buddies" as Archer called them, not see Nero altering the time line, go back in time and correct the situation?

Because....as been explained a number of times in other threads, the prime "time line" was not destroyed.

A new alternate universe was born.

TaoTrek

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POSTS: 793

Report this May. 09 2010, 8:57 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Vulcan intelligence was able to thwart Section 31 in obtaining Vulcan tech.

grigori

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Report this May. 09 2010, 9:47 pm

The Vulcans didn't even believe Future Guy visited Archer and gave him any warning at all. And yeh, I agree Vulcan intelligence probably trumped the proto-Section 31.

ThankYouGeneR

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POSTS: 422

Report this May. 10 2010, 7:31 pm

Quote (Serit @ May 09 2010, 12:09 am)
I was away this weekend, and I was working on a fic (writing, by hand, in a notebook--tres old-school), when this thought hit me:

The Xindi attack Earth; Starfleet knows that the Vulcans have better engines, better defensive shields, and better weaponry. Someone tell me, please, why the heck Malcolm Reed wasn't on the line to his Section 31 snake er, former handler, with a request (demand) like: "I don't care what you have to do or who you have to kill, but you get that Vulcan shielding and phased weaponry to me by last week, or you can kiss your shiny 22nd century Earth goodbye!"

The fact that Section 31 didn't steal Vulcan technology to fight the Xindi raises thequestion, why the heck didn't they?!

Would anyone like to comment or speculate? Other than what my ever-logic-lovin' spouse Semek said, when I brought it up to him, "You expect logic from television executives?!"

I'm gonna hafta weigh in on the side of your spouse. I cannot for the life of me see people whose job it is to work writing and producing a weekly scifi tv show sitting and investigating the minutia of StarTrek past and present when getting a show out each week. Maybe wanting to. Maybe wishing they could. (Others maybe not so much)

I cannot imagine they have the luxury we do over the long haul. They have to produce produce produce, or they and/or their show is gone gone gone.

However, I am personally liking the interesting explanations being offered up here that could fill in the blanks. Tell Semek I'm throwing in my towel on his side of the matter though.

Jason222

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POSTS: 715

Report this Nov. 18 2010, 7:01 pm

Better question way did sector 31 not take some Denial techology form NX Enterpise.

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