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ST movie  2009

Sara_Paris

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Report this May. 03 2010, 2:40 pm

When Kirk and Sulu are beamed off Vulcan while they're falling they continue to fall until they hit the transporter pad. Why should the momentum continue after their molecules have been disassembled and reassembled? Wouldn't they just appear on the transporter pad rather than fall onto it?

Narada

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Report this May. 03 2010, 2:42 pm

I also wondered this question once but I think it is considered artistic and cinematic license. You can also find other moments in Star Trek when someone is in mid movement during a transport and then they are still in motion after they are beamed but I cannot remember specifically. We can be thankful they did not have a flower with them or maybe there would be another Tuvix running around!

:cool:

Sara_Paris

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Report this May. 03 2010, 2:56 pm

:laugh: Good point.

SpaceTherapist

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Report this May. 03 2010, 5:11 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ May 02 2010, 4:23 pm)
Maybe because they were beamed out of mid-air rather than standing still, had something to do with the way they reassembled?

One thing I noticed that some may not have...anyone catch that the transporter in ST:XI took longer to work, like the one in "The Cage"?

:logical:

I just watched the Cage the other day and noticed the very same thing.

Vger23

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Report this May. 03 2010, 8:07 pm

Look how long the transporter in STTMP takes (accident that kills Sonak not withstanding).

Interesting...

Mirrorgirl

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Report this May. 04 2010, 5:33 pm

Good point which I think has been handled well by other posters here.

I have an additional question: If Chekov was able to lock onto Kirk and Sulu as they fell, then why was it difficult to save Amanda as she fell, or did I miss some vital bit of information?

Vger23

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Report this May. 04 2010, 5:41 pm

I would guess that since Amanda fell below the surface, surrounded by falling rock and liquid magma...directly affected by the pull of the singularity, that it was a much different set of variables to lock on against, and significantly harder to maintain a lock.

KALEL

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Report this May. 04 2010, 6:06 pm

Quote (Sara_Paris @ May 03 2010, 2:40 pm)
When Kirk and Sulu are beamed off Vulcan while they're falling they continue to fall until they hit the transporter pad. Why should the momentum continue after their molecules have been disassembled and reassembled? Wouldn't they just appear on the transporter pad rather than fall onto it?

A good question. Actually, Kirk and Sulu should've been killed. According to the laws of physics, they should have appeared on the transporter pad at the same velocity that they started with. So unless the transporter is equipped with some sort of inertia dampening unit to prevent that, they sould have been a couple of greasy spots on the pad when they re-materalized.

BrotherofShran01

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Report this May. 04 2010, 6:32 pm

From Memory Alpha

Quote
As with other Starfleet technology, the transporter had its own set of safety features, protocols and procedures. In an emergency, many of these safety systems could be modified or circumvented.
Early versions of the transporter in the 22nd century appeared to have no protection against external incursions into an active transport. "Foreign matter" such as blowing debris could get caught up in the transport and become embedded or integrated into the subject. (ENT: "Strange New World") Energy weapons fire would also affect the subject unless it was sufficiently far into the transport that the fire passed through it harmlessly. (ENT: "Broken Bow", "Countdown") By the late 23rd century, however, transporters shielded the subject from these external incursions. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, TNG: "A Matter of Perspective")
Biofilters were uniformly used on all Federation transporters by the 24th century. These filters functioned to decontaminate transported objects and prevent harmful substances, pathogens, and even certain forms of radiation (including theta radiation), from contaminating the rest of the ship. (VOY: "Macrocosm", "Night")
Though biofilters performed a general contaminate removal with each transport, some novel contaminate removal required specific calibration in order for the filters to be effective. As such, biofilters were incapable of filtering out certain types of substances and pathogens, most notably psychic energy. (TNG: "Lonely Among Us", "Power Play")
Biofilters were also unable to detect and filter certain types of phased reality lifeforms without prior calibration. Biofilters also functioned to detect and disable weapons and explosives (remat detonators). (TNG: "Realm of Fear", "The Schizoid Man", "The Most Toys")
Additionally pattern buffers were used to compensate for relative motion during transport, ensuring that transported matter materialized in the correct location.
Except in cases of extreme emergency, protocols prohibited transporting objects while traveling at warp speed. (TNG: "The Schizoid Man")

KlingonGeneral

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Report this May. 04 2010, 6:51 pm

I recall in Wrath of Khan (my all time favorite) that when they were transporting to the moon they were moving around and talking during the process.

TNG even had the issue when Lwaxana Troi (in Manhunt) says shame on you Jean Luc for his thoughts as she dematerializes.

As for the momentum that Kirk and Sulu had...well they made it clear in the movie that they had issues keeping a lock on moving objects and it could possibly be explained away in that Chekov was compensating for their dissent.

KlingonGeneral

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Report this May. 04 2010, 6:53 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ May 04 2010, 3:29 pm)
Quote (Yanks @ May 04 2010, 6:23 pm)
I always thought beaming was matter converted into energy, saved in the "buffer" then rematerialized. Not sure hot the kinetic energy gets in there.

The entirety of the object to be transported has to be mapped. This includes the matter conversion as well as all inherent energy, be it biological or otherwise. If the energy wasn't also mapped, only dead bodies would be materialized at the destination. Quite probably the subatomic particles would also lose identity.

Kinetic energy would also be mapped, thus Chekov had to compensate for it...

:)

Okay I didn't read your post before posting mine... :p

stovokor2000

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Report this May. 04 2010, 11:08 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ May 03 2010, 3:23 pm)
Maybe because they were beamed out of mid-air rather than standing still, had something to do with the way they reassembled?

One thing I noticed that some may not have...anyone catch that the transporter in ST:XI took longer to work, like the one in "The Cage"?

:logical:

Thats how I saw it.

starwarsrcks

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Report this May. 05 2010, 12:08 pm

I thought Kirk and Sulu were going to get killed already when I watched that scene  that wouldn't be good

KALEL

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Report this May. 05 2010, 5:50 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ May 05 2010, 1:40 pm)
Quote (KALEL @ May 04 2010, 6:06 pm)
Quote (Sara_Paris @ May 03 2010, 2:40 pm)
When Kirk and Sulu are beamed off Vulcan while they're falling they continue to fall until they hit the transporter pad. Why should the momentum continue after their molecules have been disassembled and reassembled? Wouldn't they just appear on the transporter pad rather than fall onto it?

A good question. Actually, Kirk and Sulu should've been killed. According to the laws of physics, they should have appeared on the transporter pad at the same velocity that they started with. So unless the transporter is equipped with some sort of inertia dampening unit to prevent that, they sould have been a couple of greasy spots on the pad when they re-materalized.

How would physics apply in this case when they were dematerialized and essentially "stored" as a data pattern until they were reconstructed on the pad? Their physical properties are stored, but their motion is not.

They were rematerialized in a fixed position in the air...not in motion...so therefore, they would only fall from the point where the transporter reassembled them.

:logical:

Yes, they would materalize in a fixed position in the air, but their velocity would not disapate. Even if they only re-materalized only a few feet or inches from the ground, they would still be moving at the same velocity that they started with. That's why I stated that unless there was some sort of inertia dampner built into the transporter, or perhaps if the transporter operator was able to tell that they were in motion or moving at a great velocity, then that would slow them down to a safe speed. Otherwise, they'd be killed upon impact with the pad. No, you can not store motion or velocity since it is kenetic energy, and energy can  not be destroyed. But it can be re-directed.

:logical:

Joker2Thief

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Report this May. 05 2010, 6:01 pm

Quote (Sara_Paris @ May 03 2010, 2:40 pm)
When Kirk and Sulu are beamed off Vulcan while they're falling they continue to fall until they hit the transporter pad. Why should the momentum continue after their molecules have been disassembled and reassembled? Wouldn't they just appear on the transporter pad rather than fall onto it?

While they may have materialized suspended in mid-air and fallen a foot or so onto the platform, clearly they didn't have the same momentum as when they were falling at terminal velocity over Vulcan:  Otherwise, how would transporting them save their lives, if they hit with the same force as falling without a parachute??

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