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Set New Trek Series in Mirror Universe

> id="QUOTE">The characters haven't changed very much other than the fact that they are all younger in age and maturity. Those are the only real major changes other than for Spock's big background over haul.

In this case it has more to do with the way they were telling the story. It is a give as much background on the main characters as you can in 2 hrs and tell a story type format, rather than episode based TV.



You are also under the impression that these are to be the exact same characters as seen in TOS. These are alternate timeline/universe characters that are supposed to be different.


Did Uhura come across as "proud African" in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" ?

We both know that most of the time in TOS ?she came across about as African as ?Janice Rand.

:D

I'm sorry you see what I thought to be a reasonable opinion as mindless propaganda.
I'll try to remember next time.

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 06 2010, 10:31 am

Quote (WkdYngMan @ June 06 2010, 12:52 am)
Quote (Somniac @ June 05 2010, 8:07 am)
Seems to me the question is not whether the franchise would survive without a reboot.
The question for me is, is the price, the loss of Prime Trek, worth paying?
I would rather the "great tapestry" created over 30 years was left intact and no further films/series made. I would imagine someone is going to say "It is intact!! You can return to it any time you like." which is true but it doesn't alter the fact that Nu Trek means to me, that, if box office receipts and bums on seats are the only criteria for judging success, prime Trek will never return.

Then there is no loss.

It's true. I don't understand where people are coming from on this one either.

"Prime" Trek was all but dead ANYWAY. The odds of seeing more "Prime" Star Trek are NO WORSE now than they were after Nemesis flopped and Enterprise was cancelled.

The same exact mediums are available (fan live-action internet series, pocketbook novels, etc) now that were available before Star Trek 2009 came out.

Absolutely, positively NOTHING has changed...other than the fact that the focus of the Star Trek universe is now on a production that 10% of fandom hates and can't deal with. It's not about "the prime Star Trek is gone," it's about the disappointment / irony that Paramount is finally spending big money on a version of Star Trek and everyone else likes it except that small minority, and they feel betrayed and left out.

Oh well.

Somniac

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Report this Jun. 06 2010, 10:35 am

I personally don't feel left out of anything. My objections have to do with quality.

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 06 2010, 10:52 am

Quote (Somniac @ June 06 2010, 10:35 am)
I personally don't feel left out of anything. My objections have to do with quality.

Quality of what? You were talking about the "Prime Universe" being pushed aside. I thought, for once, maybe you weren't complaining about the new movie.

I see that I was (foolishly) wrong, however.

So...how does "the quality" have anything to do with what I thought you were talking about, which was the future of Prime Star Trek focus?

Or, was this just an indirect way to whine about the last movie again?

And, if you don't feel left out, than what's the big deal?? Nothing has changed except an additional 2 hours has been added to a franchise with 100's and 100's of hours....and it's 2 hours you don't even care about!!!

Somniac

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Report this Jun. 06 2010, 1:34 pm

I don't hate the new movie. I'm not whining about it. I simply am of the opinion that the quality of the previous movies and series are more intelligent and interesting than Trek XI.
The big deal for me is that something with depth and something to say about the human condition is being replaced by something without it.

Narada

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Report this Jun. 06 2010, 1:38 pm

Quote (Somniac @ June 06 2010, 1:34 pm)
I don't hate the new movie. I'm not whining about it. I simply am of the opinion that the quality of the previous movies and series are more intelligent and interesting than Trek XI.
The big deal for me is that something with depth and something to say about the human condition is being replaced by something without it.

Why do you think the new movie has no depth and does not explore the human condition? I strongly disagree.

AtoZ2

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Report this Jun. 06 2010, 5:13 pm

Quote (Somniac @ June 06 2010, 1:34 pm)
I don't hate the new movie. I'm not whining about it. I simply am of the opinion that the quality of the previous movies and series are more intelligent and interesting than Trek XI.
The big deal for me is that something with depth and something to say about the human condition is being replaced by something without it.

What on Earth are you talking about? There was more depth and exploration of the human condition in this new timeline then all the previous TNG films combined. The expansion of characters and the new directions they may take is just beginning.
Unlike TNG movies, the basic ground work by the writers makes it obvious they plan on focusing on character development.
And while the film had great special effects, again, unlike TNG movies, the effects served a purpose and helped tell the story while not being made a featured focus of the film (like most Star Wars films)
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth because there was no scene of sitting around a table discussing techno babble BS to magically solve a problem...that's not in depth character development...that's poor writing to fill voids of weak story lines masquerading as intelligent writing.

Somniac

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Report this Jun. 07 2010, 5:32 am

What makes you think I have "jump so quick" to criticise Trek XI?
I have criticised it from the begiining and am still critical of it after 4 viewings. I'm not surprised you didn't find it that interesting after 3 or 4 viewings. That's my point really. It doesn't bear close scrutiny.Multiple viewings just show its weaknesses even more.
What little observations of the human condition contained within it are superficial. Also, it's hard for me to sympathise with characters I thought I knew that have fundementally changed to such a degree.
Spock's problems as a child and alienation from his father are themes repeatedly explored in TOS and movies, in a better and less obvious way.
The portrayal of Kirk (writing and performance) added nothing for me . He came across as 20 something immature frat boy just like a million others. Nothing special. That's the problem.
Scotty was a vaudvillian comedy turn.
Uhura came across as ambitious American rather than proud African.
The rest is explosions and punch ups.
Mind you "just action" was the initial theme of this thread. Trek XI is on the way to fullfilling that criteria.

BTW, it's not my "almighty" TNG. I was thinking about Trek in general pre XI.
Some on this board need to think a bit more carefully before they jump down people's throats if they want opinions to be credible.

DammitJim6200

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Report this Jun. 07 2010, 10:59 am

Quote (Somniac @ June 05 2010, 2:34 pm)
I don't hate the new movie. I'm not whining about it. I simply am of the opinion that the quality of the previous movies and series are more intelligent and interesting than Trek XI.
The big deal for me is that something with depth and something to say about the human condition is being replaced by something without it.

Right on, Somniac,  I'm glad some of us want to see Real Star Trek instead of a LOUD, special effects, joy ride with no story
and our TOS heroes being turned into a bunch of morons.  :honorable:

Somniac

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Report this Jun. 07 2010, 11:17 am

border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ June 07 2010, 2:35 pm)

Narada

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Report this Jun. 07 2010, 8:38 pm

Quote (Yanks @ June 07 2010, 2:14 pm)
I for one love it ALL.... but I'm afraid that those that are like me in this regard are too few in numbers to matter.

I'm guessing that STXI might have "reunited" the fan base somewhat. For the most part, the majority of folks approved and enjoyed ST09. (from what I've seen anyway)

Hopefully future success of JJ's movies will spawn enough across-the-board interest to prove enough demand for a new series.

:cool:  :cool:  :logical:

I also feel this way.

Somniac

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Report this Jun. 08 2010, 4:28 am

Quote (Yanks @ June 07 2010, 7:14 pm)
Great post Vger23, Star Trek has only succeeded when it appealed to a larger audiance.

This sums up the problem for me. Success defined as money earning capacity.
A shame because using this criteria, hundreds of fabulous movies can be dismissed as failures.

Narada

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Report this Jun. 08 2010, 1:26 pm

Quote (Somniac @ June 08 2010, 4:28 am)
Quote (Yanks @ June 07 2010, 7:14 pm)
Great post Vger23, Star Trek has only succeeded when it appealed to a larger audiance.

This sums up the problem for me. Success defined as money earning capacity.
A shame because using this criteria, hundreds of fabulous movies can be dismissed as failures.

One important consideration is that Star Trek will not continue unless it perpetuates a certain amount of revenue. Another important consideration is that in its previous state Star Trek had over 40 years of continuity which made it less accessible for non fans. In the past Star Trek also has much cultural relevance which is something they always wish to achieve.

All of this is expressed many times by owners and producers and writers in the franchise. I think the current team is trying to honor the interests of everyone with their new approach which includes the needs of the franchise and the fans and the non fans.

I think many fans can benefit from listening to those who are directly involved in the production of Star Trek. It may bring a deeper understanding as to why certain choices were made and why this direction is taken. The site trekmovie.com has been keeping great records of these interviews and articles which are all available to read.

If there are Star Trek fans who do not prefer the new direction or wish to voice their opinion against it this is acceptable. From my point of view I can understand why the new direction is taken and I look forward to seeing more. I also enjoy watching all previous Star Trek shows and movies and they will always exist as they have for years. I do not believe there is cause for concern but for fans who wish to express other opinions they may do so.

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