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This series was never given a fair chance

RomulanValdore

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POSTS: 123

Report this Apr. 17 2010, 2:44 am

I grew up as a kid watching Stark Trek. Im only 22 and was born in 1987 but i grew up watching TNG/DS9/Voyager. Watching Enterprise when it came out(broken bow episodes) it didn't feel like Star Trek at all. I don't know if it was the ship(being so weak) or the bridge being so small, or the crews uniforms being so generic, i just think the "trekkies" didn't see the link between 24th century star trek and 22nd century star trek. I watched the series premier(following the Voyager finale) and i thought the series was ok.

At the time i was entering high school and i could not keep up with the schedule or channel number enterprise was on.

This show is different, compared to TNG/DS9/VOY its not like those. However the stories if this show were great. We got to witness the beginning of starfleet, the development of the first enterprise, and the history leading up to Kirk and the 23rd century. I really liked how Enterprise incorporated the Klingon Hate, First Contact(movie), the Borg, Andorians/Vulcans, and the Romulans at the beginning. Had there been more fan support who knows, perhaps we would have got to see the Romulan/Earth war or w/e trekkies always talk about.

The point is, trekkie fans who hated this show never took into account this series was mean to be a weaker starfleet because it was the beginning. I just think that the show never felt like Star Trek to most trekkies and so it felt fake.

lostshaker

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 8:57 am

Hi RomulanValdore,

I remember vividly being stunned by the changes in the show instantly portrayed. I wasn't expecting lyrics with the theme, but thought they were brilliant alongside the history of flight montage. When Captain Archer first told T'Pol - "You have no idea how much I'm restraining myself from knocking you on your a s s!" - I was taken aback. They curse. Other crews had to crash into a planet before such a reaction was evoked!

My best friend felt much the same way as you with regards to the simplicity and weakness of the ship. He was constantly antsy about them not having shields and being sitting ducks.

Your last point is very well spoken. From the way a lot of people talk, it's as if they treat ENT as a sequel rather than a prequel where everything's in an embryonic stage. ENT's portrayal of the Vucans brought a lot of sense to the DS9's portrayal of the arrogant Vulcan Captain in "Take Me Out To The Holosuite".

Are there any specific episodes that grab you, personal favorites?

Rajiin

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 9:02 am

I think my biggest issue with a lot of 'fans' is that they look for things to pick apart, especially about this series.  If you look for things you're going to find them.  I was born in '69 so I too was raised on Trek but from TOS up.  I remember being so insulted that they would actually consider bringing another Trek series in, I flat out refused to watch TNG when it first aired.  That was until my mom & dad told me what I was missing.  I looked past whatever issue I had and fell in love with Trek all over again.  Each series grew that love, especially Enterprise, and I feel, imnsho, that fans should look for the good in all Trek ............. because it's Trek.

tishkajaku

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 11:53 am

Very good points....
RV - the series as a prequel was well presented with the technology curve needed, that's a logical need, it was well done in an odd way since the writers were also challenged with needing to add tech that was not available in TOS filmed times that we all use, yet not appearing to be too advanced for the prequel timeline.

LS - your prequel thoughts are spot on...and I like the addition of what your friend felt about being antsy....that perfectly describes my responses at times, yet I had not made that connection....thanks for the insight!!!  And I LOVE the rawness of the dialog and the actions...cursing, passion, mistakes, love, friendship, blood, sweat and tears...MUCH more realistic and relatable to me in my life...the one I am actually LIVING and being a part...I do like a well told story any day!

And R - Your point of it being TREK is a good one.  I agree that too often, certain people want to put anything Trek in a box tied neatly with a bow....and that strikes me as odd...the whole Trek concept lends itself to widening horizons, exploring new realms, both internal and external, and opening your mind to new possibilities....so the unfortunate trend of some naysayers to find a negative to me did not fit into the Trek world as envisioned by Gene.  Just my opinion....

grigori

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 3:19 pm

Nice observations, everyone. I pretty much concur with the conclusions.

I was ecstatic at this time period being portrayed on screen, and perhaps I was a little less critical of the smaller, more naive Starleet and snarkier Vulcan-Human relations because I'd been wondering about these beginnings for some time... Wow, ever since I was a kid watching TOS in fact. My mind always drifted back to what those early days for Humans in a larger galactic community must have been like, the future wide open--how exciting could that be?!

I loved TOS but the whole set-up seemed too settled for me--of course they WERE exploring strange new worlds, but they were also old pros at inter-species relations.

So I was surprised at the vulnerability of the NX-01, but pleasantly. Here was the VERY beginning, and I'm GLAD the writers were no-holds-barred on the kinds of mistakes that could be made, yet gave the crew the explorer-mentality forebearance to roll with the punches and learn.

The Chief Engineer gets pregnant, right out of the gate? Briliant! Crew members scared of the Transporter. No carpeting--fabulous!

I cringed when Archer obsequiated himself before the Klingons in Unexpected--but you have to remember, HEY, these Humans didn't know about Klingons! Vulcans could give them the stats, but not the finer points of relating to them, since Vulcans generally had no intention of adapting their approach, whereas Humans would prove to excel at it. A couple years later Archer's all "Go to hell!" with the Klingons without batting an eyelash.

It was great, seeing the Humans at a disadvantage on the one hand, but out-running the Vulcans in other areas. Archer and crew and their adaptable knack for diplomacy lead to the Coalition--and fast. It all seemed very appropriate to me. The NX-01 made HUGE mistakes, human-style, but the writers also did a good job of analyzing human strengths in the larger space community--a fore-shadowing of what the other series came back to again and again.

Middleman

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 4:34 pm

Delete

Middleman

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 4:34 pm

Quote (Rajiin @ April 17 2010, 9:02 am)
I feel, imnsho, that fans should look for the good in all Trek ............. because it's Trek.

Ditto

grigori

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 4:56 pm

Quote (Yanks @ April 17 2010, 4:32 pm)
As far as the technology and NX-01, I thought it was almost perfect. The only change I might have made was the transporter. I might have waited until season 3 or mid-way through season 2 for that one. I think I would have been disappointed if they came out with shields and replicators.

Absolutely.

And I've always thought the Transporters could wait till another generation. I thought that storylines could be more dynamic if they had to get out of tight spots with just shuttle-pods...But I agree ENT didn't over-use the Transporters as a Deux Ex Machina as much as they might have.

TrekFan1701E

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 6:45 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ April 17 2010, 5:55 pm)
My opinion of what hurt Enterprise in the best nutshell I can muster:

1. Many folks were preoccupied with the real world events of the 9/11 attacks. The story was constantly unfolding and being presented on television.
2. Enterprise was the new flagship series of UPN. UPN was placed on smaller, lower power, independent TV stations. Enterprise was often preempted by local college basketball games making the airing time of the show a bit inconsistent. It also was not available in many markets.
3. The launch of the NX-01 didn't need the entirely new story line of the Temporal Cold War (TCW), the Suliban or Future Guy and could have been much more palatable to many fans without these things in the series premier. A two or three part, completely reset TCW arc later in the series would have been a much better concept.
3.a. For many fans who were unfamiliar with the DS9 episode, Trials and Tribble-ations, something similar the explanation given for the differences in Klingon appearance in season four should have been part of the series before we saw a Klingon with ridges on Enterprise.
3.b. The ratings dropped by at least a million households after every single episode partaining to the TCW. It was only admitted by the writers after the series was cancelled that the TCW wasn't really planned out to begin with.

Fan misconceptions:
1.a. The ship was too modern - it looked like the Akira from centuries later. The design of the Akira could easily have been inspired by the beautiful lines of the NX-01. It is common practice for designers of anything to build on what they and others appreciated from the past. The NX-01 was cutting edge technology in 2151 of the Trekverse.
1.b. The ship was not modern enough. Some fans wanted shields, transporters and other Treknology they had become accustomed to while watching DS9, Voyager and even ST(TOS).
2. The series went against Trek canon. I had a thread asking for examples of how the series went against Trek canon, but I wanted references and source proof. I acquired but ONE example: the NX-01 made it to Qo'noS a little too quickly in the series premier. I'd say that was simply amazing!

I can't really blame the third season arc of the Xindi because by then ratings had all but caused the series to be cancelled.

The "fair chance" was not given for many reasons. The majority of those reasons were not because of the fans.

If there are further questions, I'm sure grigori, Middleman, Yanks and I can put on a pretty good show...

:D

I wonder what was CBS's thinking when they liked B&B ideas of a Prequel and then saying it wasn't futuristic enough? Isn't that why they added the TCW? I think instead of bringing in the Xindi they should have brought in the Romulans. I wonder if they could have played around with the dates of the RW just a bit to do that since I think the Xindi War started in 2154. The RW started in 2156, allthough their is no on screen canon proof of that.

TrekFan1701E

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 8:59 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ April 17 2010, 8:31 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ April 17 2010, 6:45 pm)
I wonder what was CBS's thinking when they liked B&B ideas of a Prequel and then saying it wasn't futuristic enough? Isn't that why they added the TCW? I think instead of bringing in the Xindi they should have brought in the Romulans. I wonder if they could have played around with the dates of the RW just a bit to do that since I think the Xindi War started in 2154. The RW started in 2156, allthough their is no on screen canon proof of that.

Braga too often didn't have a clue and Burman was asleep at the wheel...

I actually got the impression that B&B felt they needed an arguing point for Archer to launch the NX-01 so they used returning the Klingon home. To get the Klingon on Earth in the first place they had to come up with a reason for him being there. Etc....

This is just an example of what made too many of the episodes feel like a stretch, especially anything to do with the TCW.

Broken Bow should have had another title and the premis of Archer and Soval debating the right of Earth to our time for exploration, Admiral Forrest finally siding with Archer and Soval relenting and wishing them "Good luck" and some comment from T'Pol about it being a human expression.

For the first two seasons Enterprise felt more like ST(TOS) than any of the spinoffs with the exception of the TCW, Acquisition and Regeneration - the later two being poor attempts to increas ratings and were probably suggested by Paramount.

The Xindi could have been fine as a two or three parter if they were called the Xendi.

Season four was Trek gold with the exception of TATV.

The Romulan War could have been ramped up midseason 5, becoming a declared war at the end of the season and it being 2156, leading to a suggestion of the allies losing the war as the season 6 cliffhanger.

Season seven, begins with a few episodes leading to a peace treaty after the allies were able to pull off a stalemate. We then get into what to do with the new alliance, the founding of the Federation, where to base it, selecting a President and all of the jockying for position in the new organization.

None of this needed to be any kind of major arc. There is alway a lot going on in the back ground of war and forming a new governing body.

The ten years from 2151 to 2161 could easily have been portrayed in 7 seasons.

I thought of an idea of having the Romulans learn of a new race going into deep space called Humans and they would test them by probing Earth and sending a probe. This would then make them launch the NX-01 early. At first I thought it could have a Romulan so badly burned it wouldn't be recognized but they could also have an automated probe. Archer and crew would have to find out where it came from and that would be part of the mystery surrounding the first season but the first season would start at 2154 or 2155.

Or what if they kept Enterprise the way it was for Seasons 1 to 4 and did how you suggested for the RW? I wonder if Paramount thought the RW would have brought up the ratings?

AquariusNX01

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 8:45 am

I don't know about that. I didn't hate the show, but when it was in production it kind of lost me ny Season Two. Part of that was because if some of the inconsistencies with canon. Sure, some of that canon was merely implied, and some of those inconsistencies were due to being the newest show but set further back in the timeline.

It was only a couple of years ago, after catching some later episodes during a viewers choice marathon, that I really became interested. And when recommending the show to other people, I feel compelled to tell them, "hang in there, whatever it is that bugs you, ¿they fix it in Season 4."

Obviously, not living up to your viewers' expectations can be detrimental, especially when A) people tend to think of these differences as things that need "fixing", and B) it contributes to a decline in viewership that results in the show's cancellation. So there is a practical side to knowing what your ¿fans want and expect, especially in a franchise with such a long history and tradition. By the time TPTB listened, it was too late.

captainroe

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 11:38 am

I think most die hard ST fans gave the show a fair chance. I just recently bought the first 2 seasons and spent a weekend watching them. And I still have the same feeling  as I did before. It's an average show with weak plots and even weaker acting. And yes, I'm one of those people who thinks there are canon violations throughout the series. Plus, you can tell that both Berman and Braga were burned out. The effort put in the little details just wasn't there,and we all saw it. Plus, when I saw the promos for the show, I expected a show about Pike and his crew. I think many of us did, and we were very disappointed that it wasn't.  

However, there are about a dozen or so episodes that I really, really like and I did and still do give them the credit they rightfully deserve. Am I going to watch this  series until I know most of the  episodes by name and can recite the dialogue nearly line for line? No. It just hasn't made that big of an impression on me.

tishkajaku

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 11:55 am

I agree with several of the actors' assessments discussed in interviews, that this series will become more appreciated in syndication...being from an area of the world where UPN was not consistently airing the episodes during Enterprise's first run, we now have access to HD Net and are very much enjoying the series.  Most of my friends in this small town community seem to be in agreement.....I am always surprised when one of them begins to talk about watching this awesome show again, and how happy they are that they can finally see all the eps in order and on a steady basis.  

To let y'all in a bit of historical reality....we live in the Texas/Louisiana area that was greatly affected by hurricanes Katrina, Rita, Humberto and Ike....and it was after the devastation of Rita in 2005 that the direct TV, cable and satellite companies engulfed our area with the newest services....and we finally had access to more advanced communication technology.  I guess that is one positive from those disasters. This is when we finally had the abilities to copy or DVR our chosen show....but too late for those of us who were trying to follow Enterprise.  We now love HD NET!

TaoTrek

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 6:13 pm

Like most of the events in history, the reason for ENT's cancellation is varied & numerous. TB does a good job of explaining these reasons.

Oh! and thanks for your viewpoints, RV! :cool:

grigori

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 8:04 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ April 19 2010, 9:54 am)
2. The vast majority of complaints were that is was the Trek universe, a historical time in that universe, ergo a prequel to ST(TOS) and that we should have seen that history.
Quote
Contacts and alliances made in the 2150s paved the way for the founding of the United Federation of Planets in 2161.

I could have lived with a combo of learning about both new and known species, but I agree with this statement pretty much. My absolute favorite parts of ENT were the parts where we got to see the inter-actions of known species, the NX-01's part in bringing them together through all their tiffs and conflicts, and so on to the Coalition. I wanted to see so much more of what we saw in Season 4.

I guess I never thought about it, I didn't mind what I DID see, but I know I wanted to see more like S.4.

I really felt for sure we didn't need 1) transporters ( sorry, transporter fans! ) and 2) the TCW. All that time travel completely distracted from the thrill of the NX-01 alone out there, exploring, and Archer making his way into history. What a HUGELY uncool tactic of having Daniels waltz in and tell us how important Archer is to history! I wanted to SEE that fact come about; we didn't need to be told. That makes the story-telling ring hollow.

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