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"Fury"

> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (exodus201 @ April 07 2010, 2:21 pm)> id="QUOTE">:D

My sympathizes for having too endure a loved one with a such a horrible illness as Alzhimers as well.

Lynx677

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Report this Apr. 14 2010, 5:00 pm

^^
You don't? I think they made some decent songs. "Ballroom Blitz" is often played in the intervals in the hockey games in my local arena.  ;)

teya1020

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Report this Apr. 14 2010, 5:33 pm

^ Heh!


I'd forgotten about the band... ;)

exodus201

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Report this Apr. 15 2010, 10:12 am

Quote (Lynx677 @ April 13 2010, 5:25 pm)
I did that because I thought that those I'm debating with should respect what one of their beloved "gods" have written. The respect for "canon" and those who created it seem to be very big in certain places. But obviously "canon" is only OK when it comes to the destruction of the character Kes in "Fury", even if that "canon" is filled with flaws and contradictions.

And yes, I do have to stand the constant whining from a certain small group of posters about how bad Kes was as a character, how bad Lien was as an actress and what a joy the destruction of the character in "Fury" was.

I must also ask: If it had been Seven Of Nine who had been destroyed in the same way as Kes in "Fury" and then killed off, would you have supported that? Would you write a story in which Seven wasslowy killed off just to explore the fact that we all die eventually?

In other words, you're upset because poeople have opinions other than yours. ?

What a surprise. ?:eyesroll:


For your second question: Yes.
My favortire character Jadzia Dax died.
She was replaced by the less than stellar Ezri.
Lots of folks like Erzi over Jadzia.
It doesn't effect me in any way, why should it?
Lots of folks think Terry Ferrell can't act.
That doesn't bother me either, why should I care?
Rumors about Terry Ferrell's personal life don't bother me either.
Terry Ferrell used to date Mickey Rourke.
Mickey Rourke is a recovering alcoholic & drug addict.
Is it possible Ferrell did drank & did drugs with him?
Sure it is.
Do I care, no because her life & her choices are not mine.

I read and endure the same stuff you do, Lynx.
I just don't take it personal and curse people as "evil" or a "mob" because of it. ?Part of the point of posting on message boards is to hear other points of views & opinions. ?If you can't handle it, then you shouldn't be posting on one because what you're asking for is NEVER going to happen.  You act like you're the only one that has to deal with opposing points of view.

OutOfTheChair

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Report this Apr. 15 2010, 6:57 pm

Quote (exodus201 @ April 07 2010, 2:21 pm)
Quote
The Alzhimers excuse, while I know that's what they were going for doesn't cut it.


I lived with someone who had it for over 8 years and watched them deteriorate a day at a time. One minute they'd be friendly and know me, the next they thought I was a stranger breaking into their home. They'd get up in the middle of the night and try to leave the house to go visit friends that have been dead for 10 years. This illness look my Grandmothers life. Trust me, this is how Alzhimers is.

I know this too because I have experienced everything you have. If you tell me to look at Fury with my experience of Alzhimers the show all of a sudden makes sense to me. This information is very good to me to know. Now the show is a very good made show to me. It was not good to me before. Now it is a very sad show to me too.

exodus201

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Report this Apr. 16 2010, 12:32 pm

border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (OutOfTheChair @ April 15 2010, 6:57 pm)

Lynx677

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POSTS: 7859

Report this Apr. 16 2010, 5:01 pm

Quote (exodus201 @ April 14 2010, 11:12 am)
Quote (Lynx677 @ April 13 2010, 5:25 pm)
I did that because I thought that those I'm debating with should respect what one of their beloved "gods" have written. The respect for "canon" and those who created it seem to be very big in certain places. But obviously "canon" is only OK when it comes to the destruction of the character Kes in "Fury", even if that "canon" is filled with flaws and contradictions.

And yes, I do have to stand the constant whining from a certain small group of posters about how bad Kes was as a character, how bad Lien was as an actress and what a joy the destruction of the character in "Fury" was.

I must also ask: If it had been Seven Of Nine who had been destroyed in the same way as Kes in "Fury" and then killed off, would you have supported that? Would you write a story in which Seven wasslowy killed off just to explore the fact that we all die eventually?

In other words, you're upset because poeople have opinions other than yours. ?

What a surprise. ?:eyesroll:


For your second question: Yes.
My favortire character Jadzia Dax died.
She was replaced by the less than stellar Ezri.
Lots of folks like Erzi over Jadzia.
It doesn't effect me in any way, why should it?
Lots of folks think Terry Ferrell can't act.
That doesn't bother me either, why should I care?
Rumors about Terry Ferrell's personal life don't bother me either.
Terry Ferrell used to date Mickey Rourke.
Mickey Rourke is a recovering alcoholic & drug addict.
Is it possible Ferrell did drank & did drugs with him?
Sure it is.
Do I care, no because her life & her choices are not mine.

I read and endure the same stuff you do, Lynx.
I just don't take it personal and curse people as "evil" or a "mob" because of it. ?Part of the point of posting on message boards is to hear other points of views & opinions. ?If you can't handle it, then you shouldn't be posting on one because what you're asking for is NEVER going to happen. ¿You act like you're the only one that has to deal with opposing points of view.

No, I'm not upset that people have another opinion than mine, I'm upset over the unnecessary and rude character destruction and how some people are twisting  themselves inside-out by coming up with the most unrealistic attempts to defend the character destruction in the episode, in some cases because they hate or dislike the character.

Yes, I know that Jadzia Dax was your favorite and yes, I didn't like that they killed her off either.

You have your way to react to that and I have mine. But there are some differencies in how and why Jadzia and Kes were dumped.

Jadzia was killed off because Terri Farrel wanted to quit. Kes was kicked out and jennifer Lien fired because those in charge wanted to make room for Seven Of Nine and didn't dare to kick out Kim after that silly poll in People's magazine.

Kes was brought back and destroyed in the most horrible way because..........yes, why?

I'm not a frequent guest on the DS9 forum so correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see the same dirt-throwing at Jadzia Dax as we see some people doing here when it comes to Kes and I don't see anyone coming up with the most amazing theories to defend the episode in which Jadzia was killed off either.

Yes, I did label a certain group of people a "mob" because that was exactly what they were. They weren't particulary nice to the fans of the character Kes (including me).

As for posting, I do think that I have the right to express my opinions, in this case my dislike of the character destruction and the defence of it.

exodus201

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 5:49 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ April 16 2010, 5:01 pm)
No, I'm not upset that people have another opinion than mine, I'm upset over the unnecessary and rude character destruction and how some people are twisting ?themselves inside-out by coming up with the most unrealistic attempts to defend the character destruction in the episode, in some cases because they hate or dislike the character.

That's called not accepting anybody's opinions and points of view but your own. ?You just blanetly admitted it and aren't ever aware of it. ?If the only reason you can think of for likely "Fury" is to "defend character distruction", then you're very obviously selfishly blind for all too see.

As for the rest of your ramblings: So what!?

Thank you for openly proving that any converstaion dealing w/ Kes isn't about proving facts for you but rather wrestling with you own personal demons.

You're very welcome to post your opinions but nobody is obligated to agree with them just as you do.

JOYOFVGR

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Report this Apr. 17 2010, 6:50 pm

Oh. Just like old times around here. Where's vgrbabe? This was her favorite episode. :D :laugh:

I still miss her. :(

It's been so long since I've seen an episode of Voyager I'm lucky I even know what Fury is about. :O :D

Lynx677

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Report this Apr. 18 2010, 1:24 am

Quote (exodus201 @ April 16 2010, 6:49 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ April 16 2010, 5:01 pm)
No, I'm not upset that people have another opinion than mine, I'm upset over the unnecessary and rude character destruction and how some people are twisting ?themselves inside-out by coming up with the most unrealistic attempts to defend the character destruction in the episode, in some cases because they hate or dislike the character.

That's called not accepting anybody's opinions and points of view but your own. ?You just blanetly admitted it and aren't ever aware of it. ?If the only reason you can think of for likely "Fury" is to "defend character distruction", then you're very obviously selfishly blind for all too see.

As for the rest of your ramblings: So what!?

Thank you for openly proving that any converstaion dealing w/ Kes isn't about proving facts for you but rather wrestling with you own personal demons.

You're very welcome to post your opinions but nobody is obligated to agree with them just as you do.

So, defending the character destruction and coming up with the most morbid and unrealistic theories to defend the episode and those who made it is called "debating" while contradicting the many obvious flaws in the episode is called "wrestling with demons".   :laugh:

Once again, the level of this debate has been taking to a very low level.

But what to expect? I've been debating this with the same people for a long time and it's always the same story. It always ends up with personal insults.

As for "not accepting anybody's opinion", it's not about that. It's all about not accepting the unnecessary character destruction.

Not to mention that those who wants me to accept the character destruction are the very same people who often have expressed their dislike or/and hatred for the character.

exodus201

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 8:51 am

So, defending the character destruction and coming up with the most morbid and unrealistic theories to defend the episode and those who made it is called "debating" while contradicting the many obvious flaws in the episode is called "wrestling with demons". ? :laugh:

[/quote]
Yep, because basing a conclusion from actual factual evidence isn't the same as dilusions made up in ones head and passing it up as fact. ¿Other Kes fans here have seen how the facts line up and accepted with an open mind that Kes is suffering from Alzhimers. ¿I have provided enough facts to support it as well as counter all your arguments against.
So far, this debate is in my favor.
It also suggests your opinion of those fore & against Kes, is way off the mark too and as usual has little to nothing to do with debating the subject.   It's just a bait & switch tactic cover up poor debating skills and lack of factual evidence.

captainroe

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 11:39 am

Quote (challengerdyer @ Mar. 31 2010, 12:58 pm)
So, I watched "Fury" last night, and it was actually pretty good. ¿I have to admit it, I only ever saw it in 2000 when it was first run and I did not get it! ¿Now I get it. ¿The only thing is this:

At the end when old Kes is on the transporter pad, Neelix is looking at her and she basically asks, "What are you looking at?" Neelix says, "Just looking." ¿Kes responds, "What do you see?" ¿Neelix says, "Just you."

It's almost as if she's still holding a grudge against Neelix, but then as the beam takes her she looks at him and gives a little smile. ¿Huh?

So then her ship, which seems like the shuttle she left in with modifications, takes off for Ocompa. ¿I would assume that Janeway gave her all the information as to the dangers and possible shortcuts they had found???

I'd like to hear some opinions on this, especially from Kes fans who may have specific ideas about this episode.

What were you drinking when you watched it?

Lucifer_

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 11:43 am

When you look at Fury as a redemption tale, then it's easier to swallow.

brcarthey

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 12:16 pm

Quote (Lucifer_ @ April 19 2010, 11:43 am)
When you look at Fury as a redemption tale, then it's easier to swallow.

that's what she said!

teya1020

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 12:20 pm

Quote (Lynx677 @ April 18 2010, 1:24 am)
Quote (exodus201 @ April 16 2010, 6:49 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ April 16 2010, 5:01 pm)
No, I'm not upset that people have another opinion than mine, I'm upset over the unnecessary and rude character destruction and how some people are twisting ?themselves inside-out by coming up with the most unrealistic attempts to defend the character destruction in the episode, in some cases because they hate or dislike the character.

That's called not accepting anybody's opinions and points of view but your own. ?You just blanetly admitted it and aren't ever aware of it. ?If the only reason you can think of for likely "Fury" is to "defend character distruction", then you're very obviously selfishly blind for all too see.

As for the rest of your ramblings: So what!?

Thank you for openly proving that any converstaion dealing w/ Kes isn't about proving facts for you but rather wrestling with you own personal demons.

You're very welcome to post your opinions but nobody is obligated to agree with them just as you do.

So, defending the character destruction and coming up with the most morbid and unrealistic theories to defend the episode and those who made it is called "debating" while contradicting the many obvious flaws in the episode is called "wrestling with demons". ¿ :laugh:

Once again, the level of this debate has been taking to a very low level.

But what to expect? I've been debating this with the same people for a long time and it's always the same story. It always ends up with personal insults.

As for "not accepting anybody's opinion", it's not about that. It's all about not accepting the unnecessary character destruction.

Not to mention that those who wants me to accept the character destruction are the very same people who often have expressed their dislike or/and hatred for the character.

You know, Lynx, if you didn't continuously describe points of view that differ from yours, "the most morbid and unrealistic theories," debate wouldn't devolve.

You are the one telling us that our point of view is "morbid" and "unrealistic."

Meanwhile I'm left scratching my head as to how on earth a point of view that says, "they should have used the character's natural life span as a plot point for stories" is either "morbid" or "unrealistic."

Well, I suppose that if someone wants to deny that the end result of life is death, he or she could call it morbid.

But unrealistic?

Unrealistic is thinking there's a magic wand out there to expand all life spans indefinitely.

Lynx677

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Report this Apr. 19 2010, 12:56 pm

Quote (teya1020 @ April 18 2010, 1:20 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ April 18 2010, 1:24 am)
Quote (exodus201 @ April 16 2010, 6:49 pm)
Quote (Lynx677 @ April 16 2010, 5:01 pm)
No, I'm not upset that people have another opinion than mine, I'm upset over the unnecessary and rude character destruction and how some people are twisting ?themselves inside-out by coming up with the most unrealistic attempts to defend the character destruction in the episode, in some cases because they hate or dislike the character.

That's called not accepting anybody's opinions and points of view but your own. ?You just blanetly admitted it and aren't ever aware of it. ?If the only reason you can think of for likely "Fury" is to "defend character distruction", then you're very obviously selfishly blind for all too see.

As for the rest of your ramblings: So what!?

Thank you for openly proving that any converstaion dealing w/ Kes isn't about proving facts for you but rather wrestling with you own personal demons.

You're very welcome to post your opinions but nobody is obligated to agree with them just as you do.

So, defending the character destruction and coming up with the most morbid and unrealistic theories to defend the episode and those who made it is called "debating" while contradicting the many obvious flaws in the episode is called "wrestling with demons". ? :laugh:

Once again, the level of this debate has been taking to a very low level.

But what to expect? I've been debating this with the same people for a long time and it's always the same story. It always ends up with personal insults.

As for "not accepting anybody's opinion", it's not about that. It's all about not accepting the unnecessary character destruction.

Not to mention that those who wants me to accept the character destruction are the very same people who often have expressed their dislike or/and hatred for the character.

You know, Lynx, if you didn't continuously describe points of view that differ from yours, "the most morbid and unrealistic theories," debate wouldn't devolve.

You are the one telling us that our point of view is "morbid" and "unrealistic."

Meanwhile I'm left scratching my head as to how on earth a point of view that says, "they should have used the character's natural life span as a plot point for stories" is either "morbid" or "unrealistic."

Well, I suppose that if someone wants to deny that the end result of life is death, he or she could call it morbid.

But unrealistic?

Unrealistic is thinking there's a magic wand out there to expand all life spans indefinitely.

I do find the Alzheimers theory morbid and unrealistic since there are no evidence that aliens from another side of the galaxy can suffer from something called Alzheimers.

As for unrealism, it was clearly stated in "Cold Fire" that Kes's lifespan could be prolonged. Besides that, such "unrealism" is at least positive, in the same way as Spock's resurrection in "ST III, The Search For Spock" was.

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