ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Other problems with STXI that never saw mentioned.

trekfan4peace

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9

Report this Mar. 22 2010, 2:20 pm

I found the STXI to be somewhat of a good action movie. But I don't consider it much as a Star Trek movie....a little different then the Star Trek universe that I fell in love with.

I know that messing around with the time line is may have upset a lot of Trek fans, but for me it was a different version of OUR future (the ST universe), and that of the Federation that upset me the most. Not what was changed when Nero came back in time....but the version of the world, civilization, and the Federation before Nero changed anything.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I though that in the Federation the economic system moved beyond the current day obsolete capitalism... money is not used within the Federation boundries, ownership has a completely different meaning than today. So what is a corporate logo, Nokia in this case, doing in the car that the young Kirk was driving. ?Branding, marketing, logos, are a thing of the past. Corporations that exist today will no longer exist in the Federation era. I believe that this idea was implicit several times by Picard himself. Also noticed that Budwieser was mentioned when beer was ordered at the bar....again same situation. At least I didn't see money getting exchanged, they got that part right. And thirdly, how does a divorce make you broke....when one doesn't own things like they do today. Bones lost everying in the divorce....it sounded like he lost his home and everything in it, just like what happens today. I didn't get the feel that the Federation was an evolutionary step forward for civilization as I do when I watch TNG.

I must be the only one who is complaining about the economic flaws of the movie.Most complain about the messing with the timeline ,the bad science, and being action oriented,but I never saw anyone notice the bad economics in the movie. It seems to me that JJ Abrams and Paramount sold out to get those companies (Nokia, Bud) mentioned in the movie.

Just my two cents.

Anyone else agree or am I the only one.

fooledagain

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 878

Report this Mar. 22 2010, 2:37 pm

Agreed. The blatant product placement sellout by those that own Trek is distracting to those familiar with the "prime" Trek universe. Prepare to get excuses for this greed that involve "alternate" realities.

CultOfByron

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 156

Report this Mar. 22 2010, 2:45 pm

As far as I know, Budweiser is mentioned because they provided the Engineering set.  Not sure about the whole Nokia thing...

Star Trek is a business, more now than it ever was.  I don't remember seeing any product placement/advertising in ST:OGAM or New Voyages/Phase II mind you...

SpaceTherapist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6370

Report this Mar. 22 2010, 2:48 pm

I always found the money issue inconsistent in Star Trek. In Trek III McCoy tells the alien that he has money pay for a trip to the Genesis planet. They very next movie Kirk talks about the 20th century still using money. Trek has notoriously contradicted itself on this issue.

I think the product placement made this movie seem more real to me.

JM1ICEMAN

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1633

Report this Mar. 22 2010, 8:07 pm

You people crack me up.
Many TV series and movies from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's avoided the use of showing real life brand names or even mentioning those products, mostly because the way the copy right laws are written the studio's would have to pay to use those names and products on screen.
SB is correct, never once was it ever mentioned that such companies do not exist any longer.
In all reality, why would they not?
Budweiser is a natural to exist in the 23rd Century so it makes sense to finally see and hear of something from today's world being mentioned in the world of tomorrow.
Makes the Star Trek universe that much more real.
Electronic brand names are the most fleeting even in today's world, but I would have gone with something that has been around longer now then Nokia.
The term money isn't used in Star Trek, Credits is the wave of the future.
Every one seems to avoid or even consider the way it works, but it's apparent every one has an account containing these credits that they use to make purchases and exchanges.
It also appears to be the universal exchange system used between all worlds of the Federation.
Apparently Credits are easily accepted and converted to what ever imagined exchanged system is used even on the most alien of worlds.
It would be nice to see a member of the crew pull out their "Federation Express Card" don't leave your home world with out it.

The conflict over the use of credits comes from the misunderstanding by the writers of certain episodes and movies.
Many episodes from all the series acknowledged the used of credits.
Uhura was going to "buy" a tribble from Cyrano Jones in "The Trouble with Tribbles"
Dr. Beverly Crusher bought an entire bolt of fabric in the very first TNG episode, "Encounter at Far Point"
In TNG episode "Captain's Holiday" Vash a Federation civilian, is clearly out to make a profit from the highest bidder.

The system might be different, but even in Star Trek, there is no free lunch.

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Mar. 22 2010, 8:24 pm

Quote
Electronic brand names are the most fleeting even in today's world, but I would have gone with something that has been around longer now then Nokia.


I've said before that the nokia seemed to be part of a collection, from "around" the same time as the car, loaded with music from the end of the 20th century. It was more an antique than an everyday item.

cptdon

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 320

Report this Mar. 22 2010, 8:38 pm

I like it. I always thought this "The Great Bird of the Galaxy's" vision of the future was a bit on the sterile lame side of things. I always assumed that is why the adventure seekers went into space, to get away from the standard Federation life of boredom. The Federation has always sat wrong with me, where Starfleet has been my love ;)

Orionslaver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12

Report this Mar. 23 2010, 2:22 am

That utopian not needing money, were perfect humans without conflict crap is 24th century trek.  23rd century trek never mentioned not having a currency or anything like that.

cptdon

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 320

Report this Mar. 23 2010, 10:55 am

Quote (Orionslaver @ Mar. 23 2010, 2:22 am)
That utopian not needing money, were perfect humans without conflict crap is 24th century trek. ¿23rd century trek never mentioned not having a currency or anything like that.

You know your right, because I was watching TAS last night with the family and TOS the other night and all Kirk ever says is that mankind is getting better and improving. Trying...

subytrek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 39018

Report this Mar. 23 2010, 2:24 pm

By the 24th century mankind is perfect. :logical: :eyesroll:

trekfan4peace

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9

Report this Mar. 23 2010, 3:42 pm

@Spacetherapist - I noticed that in ST credits were used to make purchases where either when dealing with those outside of the Federation or illigal activities....which I think Bones was doing both to get a ride to Genesis.
During STIV, Kirk did mentioned that people were still using money in the 20th century..unlike the 23rd. He mentioned it again in same movie during his dinner date with the biologist.

@JM1ICEMAN - The examples of trade taking place was with those outside of the Federation. Vash was living outside the Federation and was looking to make latium....which is used outside of the Federation. Same thing with Dr. Crusher, the planet she was on was not part of the Federation. However, the tribbles incident is inconsistant. I think Uhura was buying on a Federation outpost.

I didn't say anything about a free lunch in the Federation, just an equal share of the lunch.

I always had the impression that corporations don't exist. This was implied during the final episode in season 1 of TNG. When a human financier from the 20th century was revived he wanted to speak to his law-firm or brokerage-firm about his assets. Picard made it clear that they no longer exist...there is no stock portfolio. Financial assets, trust accounts, etc. don't exist...thus i assume companies don't exist either...either does wealth. The financiers occupation didn't even exist any longer. Just imagine a world without corporate lawyers & bankers...no $700B bailout..er....robbery in the 23rd century.
I never ever saw a multi-national or should i say multi-galactic company that existing in Star Trek. When the Federation dealt with outsiders, they dealt with them as one entity ...the state. For example when Riker was negotiating for the wormhole in one particular episode. He was the Federation representative...there was no other representatives for private interests/corporate interest within the federation...they don't exist.
It is possible that they could not have shown a brand due to copyright laws during the 60's, but they could have created one to show that companies do exist in the future. But there was never was a label/brand/company ever in the ST universe.

@cptdon - I would of loved it in the Federation, but like you I would of tried to join Star Fleet. But unlike today, you can't buy your way into StarFleet...you have to earn it. Or in Kirks case hack into it and cheat your way in :)

You may be right, I guess money didn't totally disappear until the 24th century. I'll keep my eyes out if they decide to do a reboot of TNG. See if they get that right.

cptdon

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 320

Report this Mar. 23 2010, 3:58 pm

Oh I would have no problem earning my way in. Remember the Kirk I know from the TOS earned everything he got, and he just "cheated" on one simulation of the KM not the whole of Starfleet. Hell he did it so well they gave him an accommodation for it :D

As for the Federation or the state being in charge of everything when dealing with other governments in space, that would make sense. Picard and Riker were not just military leaders and explorers, they were also ambassadors for the Federation in the absence of a "full-time" ambassador.

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Mar. 24 2010, 2:51 am

Quote (trekfan4peace @ Mar. 22 2010, 2:20 pm)
It seems to me that JJ Abrams and Paramount sold out to get those companies (Nokia, Bud) mentioned in the movie.

And they weren't the first to do so in Trek.  No big deal.

WkdYngMan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3951

Report this Mar. 24 2010, 2:55 am

Quote (trekfan4peace @ Mar. 23 2010, 3:42 pm)
@JM1ICEMAN - The examples of trade taking place was with those outside of the Federation.

So were the purchases of Budweiser (and whose to say it isn't just a "name" at this point like "Tennesee Whiskey") and the use of Nokia.  Those were civilian products.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Mar. 25 2010, 9:24 am

Quote (trekfan4peace @ Mar. 23 2010, 3:42 pm)
During STIV, Kirk did mentioned that people were still using money in the 20th century..unlike the 23rd. He mentioned it again in same movie during his dinner date with the biologist.


.

Keep in mind that this movie takes place close to 40 years before STIV.

And a number of times durring the run of the original series was money and paychecks mentioned.
Quote

I always had the impression that corporations don't exist. This was implied during the final episode in season 1 of TNG. When a human financier from the 20th century was revived he wanted to speak to his law-firm or brokerage-firm about his assets. Picard made it clear that they no longer exist..


No, what was clear was that they no longer exist as private institutes of capitalism.

Theres nothing preventing Nokia from still existing as a research and tech developer, and theres nothing preventing Budweiser from existing as a provider of a specific flavor of drink.

And keep in mind, the example you provided is from well over 100 years into the future of the Federation.

Could be those changes didnt come into effect till closer to Picards time.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum