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Mars

norwegian

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Report this Mar. 12 2010, 6:33 am

On Earth, the higher you go, the colder it gets and the atmosphere gets thinner, so that must mean the lower or deeper you go, it must get hotter and the air more dense.  I assume the same of Mars.  My question is: How deep of a hole would you need to dig on Mars for the Atmospheric pressure to rise, to where water could exist in liquid form and the temperature would be high enough so it wouldn't freeze?  Or is Mars' core too cold and atmosphere too thin for this to ever happen?

dryson

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Report this Mar. 12 2010, 4:47 pm

I would think that the Martian atmosphere is too thin and the core not active enough to allow for water in liquid form but as you suggest could be in frozen form waiting to be tapped.
We wont know until we get there and drill and drop a recording device into the hole.

Admiral_JTK

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Report this Mar. 17 2010, 4:30 pm

Quote (4_o_20 @ Mar. 17 2010, 4:12 pm)
Does Mars have a molten core? Do we know? There's inactive volcanos isn't there?

Mars is home to the largest volcano (active or otherwise) in the entire solar system.

According to Space.com, Mars does indeed still have a molten core, but Mars has little to no magnetosphere which suggests that the metallic components are not solid and the core itself is not spinning.

dryson

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Report this Mar. 18 2010, 7:12 pm

Quote
Mars is home to the largest volcano (active or otherwise) in the entire solar system.

According to Space.com, Mars does indeed still have a molten core, but Mars has little to no magnetosphere which suggests that the metallic components are not solid and the core itself is not spinning.


So basically the core of Mars is dieing and could possbile become partially hollow once a certain amount of core material has been pushed up into the sub-surfaces of Mars?

Could this mean that since there is hardly any core activity that the lower layers of the Martian planetary structure could collapse into the hollow core as well?

I wonder why Mars doesn't spin as rapidly as Earth does. Could it be because of the composition of the planet itself maybe being more metallic than Earth, meaning heavier, that would cause the planet to turn more slowly than Earth.This would then cause the core to not spin as fast that aids in creating the electrical charge through static electricity that would charge all of the elements that require an electrical charge to create their magnetism that would then create the magnetosphere?

draeden06

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Report this Mar. 21 2010, 2:27 pm

Quote (dryson @ Mar. 18 2010, 7:12 pm)
Quote
Mars is home to the largest volcano (active or otherwise) in the entire solar system.

According to Space.com, Mars does indeed still have a molten core, but Mars has little to no magnetosphere which suggests that the metallic components are not solid and the core itself is not spinning.


So basically the core of Mars is dieing and could possbile become partially hollow once a certain amount of core material has been pushed up into the sub-surfaces of Mars?

Could this mean that since there is hardly any core activity that the lower layers of the Martian planetary structure could collapse into the hollow core as well?

I wonder why Mars doesn't spin as rapidly as Earth does. Could it be because of the composition of the planet itself maybe being more metallic than Earth, meaning heavier, that would cause the planet to turn more slowly than Earth.This would then cause the core to not spin as fast that aids in creating the electrical charge through static electricity that would charge all of the elements that require an electrical charge to create their magnetism that would then create the magnetosphere?

A hollow planet?



Mars is a smaller planet, so it cooled down faster. The crust got thicker faster, so no more tectonic activity. The core cooled faster, viscosity increased, so the core stopped spining (if it ever did spin). No spinning metallic core means no magnetosphere.
Mars is less dense than Earth, so it can't be any more metallic than the Earth.
Mars spins at about the same rate as Earth does; its day is 25 hours long.

dryson

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Report this Mar. 21 2010, 7:32 pm

If the core is not active then like a pool of water it will eventually dry up and become solid depositing it's silt per sey on the bottom of the core. If the core does not remain active where it releases the built up pressure through lava being vented to the surface of the planet then there would not be any layer crust or upper core layer material re-integrated into the core to fuel the core to build up pressure. Basically it would like having a pressurized wood burning stove. The stove is pressurized to a certain psi because of the heat build-up. When this pressure finds a crack in the layer layers of the crust the pressure of the core will break through this crack and continue onward until any resistance is not met. Sometimes this will lead to the laval from the core finding it's way to the surface or it may only reach a few hundred miles or so from the core to form an underground lava bed. Once this lava bed has been formed any release of lava from the core will continue to etch it's way through the various cracks of the planets crust either finding it's way to the surface or back down to the core. Once all of the weak spots have been found and the lava can no longer replenish itself with material the pressure begins to reced back into the core. Eventually this causes the core to become less and less active just like the stove that if not fed with wood the fire will die out. The loss of material being feed back into the core will then slowly cause the eruptions and quakes to cease which knocks material into core as well which causes the core to slowly dry up or becom solid and even hollow where the lower layers would collapse into the core's empty cavity.

Captain_Kayzek_Juno_TGCO

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Report this Apr. 05 2010, 3:36 am

Quote (dryson @ Mar. 12 2010, 10:47 am)
I would think that the Martian atmosphere is too thin and the core not active enough to allow for water in liquid form but as you suggest could be in frozen form waiting to be tapped.
We wont know until we get there and drill...let's get the best deep core drilling company ready to do that.

You know what this means....Get Bruce Willis on the phone!

Holberg

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Report this Apr. 22 2010, 10:18 am

:laugh: ¿:laugh: Core the thing out and we have our first star base :laugh: ¿:laugh:

dryson

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Report this Apr. 22 2010, 5:22 pm

That does present an interesting topic Holberg, coring out the Martian core and then building a base inside of it. Although the task would be monumental just think of the advantages of having a base in the core of Mars.

Advantages:

Protection from solar flares
Protection from the violent storms on the sruface of Mars.
An abundance of Martian Ores that we could use to create building structures as well as selling back to Earth.

Basing in the core of Mars would also make for a great system defense for the solar system. Tunnels would be dug all the way to the surface from the core. Rail launching systems similar to that the Vipers use to launch from Galatica would then be built through in each shaft. When needed to be launched the ships would ride the rail to the surface and engage their targets. A landing system would be built the same way as the launch tunnel system is to allow ships to return from patrol as well as being used to launch emergency attack squadrons against potential threats. The larger ships would be housed in the various layers of the Martian mantle where they would be either sent to the surface by elevator or under their own VSTOL engines.

Here is my rendition of a base made from hollowing out the core of Mars.



The thicker black ring has six turbo car tubes of equal size that are used to transport large vehicle components to their respective areas. The thinner black ring has two sets of six turbo car shafts each that transport personnel to their destination which can be alongside one of the capital class tube's, utility tubes or smaller ship launcing tubes.

Estimated population 3 to 5 million.
Power generation would be conducted by building large solar paneling on the surface where they would constantly store Yardnay Batteries the size of Greyhound Buses for emergency use.

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Report this Apr. 23 2010, 12:21 am

Mega-Death-Star eh,where's the antigravity drive and the transwarp drive.

My question is - why both build it?

BrotherofShran01

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Report this May. 22 2010, 12:07 pm

Quote (Guest @ April 22 2010, 5:22 pm)
That does present an interesting topic Holberg, coring out the Martian core and then building a base inside of it. Although the task would be monumental just think of the advantages of having a base in the core of Mars.

Advantages:

Protection from solar flares
Protection from the violent storms on the sruface of Mars.
An abundance of Martian Ores that we could use to create building structures as well as selling back to Earth.

Basing in the core of Mars would also make for a great system defense for the solar system. Tunnels would be dug all the way to the surface from the core. Rail launching systems similar to that the Vipers use to launch from Galatica would then be built through in each shaft. When needed to be launched the ships would ride the rail to the surface and engage their targets. A landing system would be built the same way as the launch tunnel system is to allow ships to return from patrol as well as being used to launch emergency attack squadrons against potential threats. The larger ships would be housed in the various layers of the Martian mantle where they would be either sent to the surface by elevator or under their own VSTOL engines.

Here is my rendition of a base made from hollowing out the core of Mars.



The thicker black ring has six turbo car tubes of equal size that are used to transport large vehicle components to their respective areas. The thinner black ring has two sets of six turbo car shafts each that transport personnel to their destination which can be alongside one of the capital class tube's, utility tubes or smaller ship launcing tubes.

Estimated population 3 to 5 million.
Power generation would be conducted by building large solar paneling on the surface where they would constantly store Yardnay Batteries the size of Greyhound Buses for emergency use.

It seems like an advance idea of Space 1999's moon base Alpha.

BrotherofShran01

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POSTS: 23344

Report this May. 25 2010, 6:16 pm

Quote (4_o_20 @ May 23 2010, 10:25 pm)
Oh No! Is there a show in existence with worse science than Space 1999? I mean, how exactly did the moon become accelerated to either relativistic or superluminal velocity by the destruction of the Earth? Anyone?

If I remember correctly, the Earth was not destroyed. There was suppose to be a huge nuclear explosion that knocked the moon out of Earth's orbit.

konarciq

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Report this Sep. 02 2010, 6:52 am

I may be taking this in a slightly different direction, but there´s something I don´t understand.


From what I gather from the reports, scientists are always looking for water on other planets because water is a prerequisite for life. If there´s no water, we don´t need to bother looking for lifeforms. Or something like that.


But who says that alien lifeforms are dependent on water, just like earthlife? Couldn´t they be dependent on carbodioxide or something else?


If there is nothing wrong with me, then maybe there´s something wrong with the universe? -Dr. Crusher

2takesfrakes

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Report this Sep. 02 2010, 7:31 am

Carbon-based life depends on very common elements in the universe.
It also has the greatest ability to diversify and therefore, survive
and eventually evolve into higher forms. Most other theorized life-forms
are severely limited in that regard, particularly silicon-based life. So,
the odds are much greater that we would find life similar to our own.

As an aside:
If our own planet is any indication, dinosaurs dominated complex life
on this planet for a significant slice of the life's history. Man has
only been around a very brief time. And in that time, has teetered not
only on destroying himself, but most of the planet along with him. And
for most of our history, knowledge was repressed to keep those seated
in high places in power. Using us as an example, it's not looking good ...

captbates

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Report this Sep. 03 2010, 4:43 pm

Quote: konarciq @ Sep. 02 2010, 6:52 am

I may be taking this in a slightly different direction, but there´s something I don´t understand.

From what I gather from the reports, scientists are always looking for water on other planets because water is a prerequisite for life. If there´s no water, we don´t need to bother looking for lifeforms. Or something like that.

But who says that alien lifeforms are dependent on water, just like earthlife? Couldn´t they be dependent on carbodioxide or something else?



The big question is "are we the only life that exists?" the odds are in favour of something else living out there, but until we can prove it there is always a chance that we are totally alone.
The two theoretical "chemical" structures I'm most familiar with are Silicon (we all know about this one from Star Trek) and Methane, but there are many others that could in theory support life. Although should we be looking at this from the point of view of "what is possible" or looking at "how it would become possible" after all animal life only formed on this planet after plant life "cleaned" up the atmosphere, then began a symbiotic relationship which cannot be broken. Although anything is possible we've got to use what we know as a guide, and that's why it's so important that we look for water first, even if it's just to look and see if simple organisms such as bacteria exist elsewhere.

Anyway my point is that on Earth everything has a purpose, plant life "feeds" animal life and in return animal life sustains plant life, if alien life based on Silicon or any other biochemistry exists I'd expect there would need to be the same symbiotic relationship going on for it to survive, but I've never even heard or seen this discussed before. Not only would they need to "feed" on each other, but all waste products would be utilised too.
Would silicon based life need silicon based "trees" to survive? is that even possible?


If you can read this it means I've got something to work on here.

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