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A new theory on warp drive

dryson

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POSTS: 749

Report this Feb. 28 2010, 6:17 pm

I was at another site discussing different approaches to faster than light travel which is at least possible in a fision reaction through water where the reaction travels 2c.

What we were discussing was the affects of friction on the hull of an airplane as it goes faster than the speed of sound.

An F-4 Phatom can only travel mach 2 to 2.4. Any attempts to go faster than this velocity would cause the aluminum hull to in essence catch fire and burn as a result of the hull contacting the atoms at a faster rate of velocity that ?causes friction. The more friction that occurs between the hull and atoms as a result of the craft going faster begins to break down the crafts metal hull structure. This is because as atoms heat up they move around alot faster just causing them to lose their cohesive bond to the other atoms which causes weaknesses in the fabric of the hull which them leads to structural failure and eventuall system wide failure resulting in the loss of the craft. The idea that I had was to line the hull of a ship with two layers of antenna's that would function the same as the first stage RF Coupler that would knock loose an electron from each atom that it encountered. The reason that this would be necessary would be that as the ship goes faster and encounters more atoms at anyone time the amount of friction would increase as would the weight of the atoms exerting their force against the ships hull as it traveled through space faster and faster. By relieving each of the atoms of an electron would change the actual atom to another atom which which maybe a lighter atom that would not create such a weight against the ship as it traveled faster and faster as well as creating less friction on ships hull that would keep the structural deterioration of the cohesive nature of the alloy used down to a minimum.

Quote
The primary purpose of the first RF coupler is to convert gas into plasma by ionizing it, or knocking an electron loose from each gas atom. It is known as the helicon section, because its coupler is shaped in such a way that it can ionize gas by launching helical waves through the gas.


Another means of creating a less ductile interaction between the atoms in space and the hull of a ship would be to add a lining of titanium to the outter surface of the ships hull of maybe an 1/8th of an inch. titanium as also non-magnetic which means will would not be as effected by a planets gravity or other areas of gravity that the ship may pass through.

Did you know that titanium is used in making the icing paint that is used on the M in M an M's?
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/titanium/overview.php

The second layer of this field would be the opposite affect to ion that occurs in an ION Engine, where instead of attracting the ions to the grid the ions would be repelled away from the hull after being ionized by the RF coupler.

Now the only problem with this theory is that the antenna works on gas atoms, would the same process of how the RF coupler functions work on non-gaseous atoms in space work on the atoms that the radio frequency would encounter?

This would theoretically allow the Vasmr to achieve a faster overall rate of velocit when used in conjuction with the Vasimr/Ion Grid combination.

dryson

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POSTS: 749

Report this Mar. 01 2010, 2:40 pm

You see that is where you are stuck at again, you get to the point of wanting to push forward but you can't because you afraid that if you look past the obvious which is not a law that if broken the law will show up and arrest you, yes you may get laughed at for talking about it but that is because people only pick and chose what they want to use to build their image up and when a new idea comes along that may detract from their image they try to stop it at all costs because it would make their center of attention of achieving fame and fortune like yesterdays newspaper being used for nothing more than bird cage lining or to clean the windows with.

I feel bad for your lack of not being to look past the obvious 4_of_20 there is a world beyonf what you know that is waiting to be explored.

__

Now back to MY idea that if you dont like it either dont post a response or assist in some area that may add to the idea.

I was also thinking that the faster the ship travels and builds up a pressure against the hull between the hulls surface and atoms that it comes into contact with a possible electric discharge may occur not in the form of lightning but would in the form of static electricity buildup on the surface of the hull.

The engine nacelle would therefore be a compsite of titanium-tephra. As the ship is traveling faster and faster, the presure of the interaction between the atoms and the titanium-tephra  would create an ionizing affect on the engine surface that would lead to electromagnetism that would create a stable field around the nacelles. This effect when coupled with with the reverse process of how the ion grid network functions in similar fashion of repelling ions like the grid of the ion engine attracts ions will force the ions away from the nacelles in essence creating a bubble or layer of obsolute space between the engine nacelle and the surrounding atoms in space.

And I did not say anything about going faster than light 4_of_20 if you would have read the whole thread topic instead of onlt the thread name you would have not seen a mention about going faster than the speed of light but of trying to figure out how to make a ship go faster that it's normal velocity. This goes to show me that you have a vanity issue where you only want to see what is on the surface that you can use to make yoursefl feel better about your own circumstances as they are. I cannot help it if you cannot get past your own relativity issues, that is something you must come to grips with.

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Mar. 01 2010, 4:37 pm

Quote (dryson @ Feb. 28 2010, 3:40 pm)
You see that is where you are stuck at again, you get to the point of wanting to push forward but you can't because you afraid that if you look past the obvious which is not a law that if broken the law will show up and arrest you, yes you may get laughed at for talking about it but that is because people only pick and chose what they want to use to build their image up and when a new idea comes along that may detract from their image they try to stop it at all costs because it would make their center of attention of achieving fame and fortune like yesterdays newspaper being used for nothing more than bird cage lining or to clean the windows with.

I feel bad for your lack of not being to look past the obvious 4_of_20 there is a world beyonf what you know that is waiting to be explored.

__

Now back to MY idea that if you dont like it either dont post a response or assist in some area that may add to the idea.

I was also thinking that the faster the ship travels and builds up a pressure against the hull between the hulls surface and atoms that it comes into contact with a possible electric discharge may occur not in the form of lightning but would in the form of static electricity buildup on the surface of the hull.

The engine nacelle would therefore be a compsite of titanium-tephra. As the ship is traveling faster and faster, the presure of the interaction between the atoms and the titanium-tephra ¿would create an ionizing affect on the engine surface that would lead to electromagnetism that would create a stable field around the nacelles. This effect when coupled with with the reverse process of how the ion grid network functions in similar fashion of repelling ions like the grid of the ion engine attracts ions will force the ions away from the nacelles in essence creating a bubble or layer of obsolute space between the engine nacelle and the surrounding atoms in space.

And I did not say anything about going faster than light 4_of_20 if you would have read the whole thread topic instead of onlt the thread name you would have not seen a mention about going faster than the speed of light but of trying to figure out how to make a ship go faster that it's normal velocity. This goes to show me that you have a vanity issue where you only want to see what is on the surface that you can use to make yoursefl feel better about your own circumstances as they are. I cannot help it if you cannot get past your own relativity issues, that is something you must come to grips with.

Problem is you don't learn from your mistake, you cannot discount Special Relativity as it is observed in action every time a particle accelerator fires, or even in the receiving data from GPS satellite.

We cannot move forward until you agree that it exist and what it said about hi speed travel is absolutely correct!!!

4_ov_20

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POSTS: 29

Report this Mar. 01 2010, 8:52 pm

You've never answered one question I constantly ask:

Without special relativity, what stops one going faster than the speed of light?

Look into Galileo's relativity theory... it's basically your universe, only he has the disadvantage of being half a millenia behind in scientific studies. Still a smart man, but in his theory two objects could move towards or away from each other at any speed they wished, as it was thought the speed of light was infinite...

So in the drysonverse, what stops you going over the speed of light?

dryson

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POSTS: 749

Report this Mar. 01 2010, 9:55 pm

[QUOTEProblem is you don't learn from your mistake, you cannot discount Special Relativity as it is observed in action every time a particle accelerator fires, or even in the receiving data from GPS satellite.

We cannot move forward until you agree that it exist and what it said about hi speed travel is absolutely correct!!!
[/QUOTE]

Then how can you account for the following which I consider a very informative and trustworthy source:

Quote
In nuclear reactors there subatomic particles leaving the fision reactions at speeds greater than the speed of light in water.

If your analysis was correct then reactors would blow apart during normal operations. Any charged partlicle will transfer its kenectic energy by secondary ionization. Think about it, uranium is an alpha emiter (this is a helium ion), and the alpha particle is traveling at a significant percent of the speed of light and a piece of paper will stop an alpha particle.

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Mar. 02 2010, 11:47 am

Quote (dryson @ Feb. 28 2010, 10:55 pm)
[QUOTEProblem is you don't learn from your mistake, you cannot discount Special Relativity as it is observed in action every time a particle accelerator fires, or even in the receiving data from GPS satellite.

We cannot move forward until you agree that it exist and what it said about hi speed travel is absolutely correct!!!


Then how can you account for the following which I consider a very informative and trustworthy source:

Quote
In nuclear reactors there subatomic particles leaving the fision reactions at speeds greater than the speed of light in water.

If your analysis was correct then reactors would blow apart during normal operations. Any charged partlicle will transfer its kenectic energy by secondary ionization. Think about it, uranium is an alpha emiter (this is a helium ion), and the alpha particle is traveling at a significant percent of the speed of light and a piece of paper will stop an alpha particle.
[/quote]
Apparently you ignore the fact that it said the "Speed of light in Water"!!!!

Light travels slower in the atmosphere, even slower in water. Einstein limit is for the vacuum of space, where light transmission is due to non interrupted travel of photons. in air or water, photons are constantly being absorbed and retransmitted. The Speed of light is slower , and it is possible for a particle to travel faster than a photon since they donot under go this absorption process.

In space, the odd against that a photon will interact with a single hydrogen atom that occupy a cubic cm of vacuum is greater than hitting both the Power ball and Mega lotto in the same week. Light basically travel uninterrupted for thousands of light years ¿!!!
No normal matter can travel this fast thru the vacuum than light and any attempts fall victim to the Effects of relativity.

As for a piece of paper stopping an alpha particle, do you know what the momentum is of an alpha particle being emitted during radioactive decay?.. The paper which is thousand of atoms thick,with each atom 4 time more massive, is basically like a paper airplane running into a brick wall.

But the closer it get to c the more momentum Alpha particles receive, it been recorded that cosmic rays ( made up of Single proton or Alpha particles) have struck the air with momentum equal to a fastball throw at 90 miles an hour!!! No sheet of paper would stop that, as it stand it require most of the air atmosphere to stop such a particle. The momentum of such particle are not just due to the velocity they travel but to the increase of mass as predicted by relativity. This effect is seen in particle accelerators around the world and have been record in thousands upon thousand of test...

Apparently REAL SCIENCE is beyond you, and that you on the same level of Green House Skeptic that take fragment of comments and twist the meaning to support their fanasties, ignoring the meaning behind the statement.

dryson

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Report this Mar. 02 2010, 3:23 pm

Quote
At full power (200 kilowatts), the Missouri S&T Reactor core produces approximately 6.4 trillion fissions per second. Each fission event liberates a tremendous amount of energy, a portion of which is carried away by fission products which then decay and produce high-energy beta particles. Often, these beta particles are emitted with such high kinetic energies that their velocities exceed the speed of light (3.0x108 meters per second) in water. When this occurs, photons, seen to the eye as blue light, are emitted and the reactor core "glows" blue.

While no particle can exceed the speed of light in a vacuum, it is possible for particles to travel faster than light in certain mediums, such as water. The speed of light in a particular medium, v, is related to the speed of light in a vacuum, c, by the index of refraction, n, by v = c/n. Water has an index of refraction of 1.3, thus the speed of light in water is 2.3x108 meters per second. Therefore, beta particles with kinetic energies of 0.26 MeV travel at speeds in excess of 230 million m/s!

When a charged beta particle moves through water it tends to "polarize" (orient) the water molecules in a direction adjacent to its path, thus distorting the local electric charge distribution. After the beta particle has passed, the molecules realign themselves in their original, random charge distribution. A pulse of electromagnetic radiation in the form of blue light is emitted as a result of this reorientation. When the speed of the beta particles is less than the speed of the light in water, the pulses tend to cancel themselves by destructive interference; however when the speed of the beta particle is greater than the speed of light in water, the light pulses are amplified through constructive interference. The phenomenon is analogous to the acoustic "sonic boom" observed when an object exceeds the speed of sound in air.

The intensity of the blue glow is directly proportional to the number of fissions occurring and the reactor power level. This property is utilized in Cerenkov detectors that measure the magnitude of Cerenkov radiation produced in a detector made of lucite. Cerenkov radiation becomes visible in the Missouri S&T Reactor core at a power of about 6 kW. At 200 kW the core glows brilliantly with a soft blue glow. The blue glow continues for some time after the reactor has been shut down due to the decay of fission products.

Another explanation of the Cerenkov effect can be found at Wikipedia. The Wikipedia site features Missouri S&T's Nuclear Reactor in its examples to explain the subject.


Granted particles may not exceed the speed of light in space yet, but a new discover with dark matter and how particles seem to float right through it may provide the information needed to allow faster than light speed travel.

Dark Matter

The article suggest's and I quote
Quote
And dark matter doesn't often interact with most other matter, scientists theorize. One idea is that it flies right through the Earth, your house, and your body without bouncing off atoms.


The quote says that dark matter doesn't often interact with most other matter which means that some particles and dark matter will interact with each other all of the time or more often than others with possibly light being the most affected which LS (Light Speed) has been deemed the fastest possible particle speed attainable. But since we cannot even see dark matter with telescopes then we would not see the particles that are not affected by it traveling faster than the speed of light.

lanceromega

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Report this Mar. 03 2010, 10:33 am

Quote
anted particles may not exceed the speed of light in space yet, but a new discover with dark matter and how particles seem to float right through it may provide the information needed to allow faster than light speed travel.

Dark Matter

The article suggest's and I quote
Quote
And dark matter doesn't often interact with most other matter, scientists theorize. One idea is that it flies right through the Earth, your house, and your body without bouncing off atoms.


The quote says that dark matter doesn't often interact with most other matter which means that some particles and dark matter will interact with each other all of the time or more often than others with possibly light being the most affected which LS (Light Speed) has been deemed the fastest possible particle speed attainable. But since we cannot even see dark matter with telescopes then we would not see the particles that are not affected by it traveling faster than the speed of ligh


And tell me why this would allow to travel ftl! how does not interacting with normal matter make it immune to Special Relativity!!!!

The speed limit set by Relativity is due to the fact that Matter, even Dark matter would gain mass and inertia as it approaches the speed of light! Simple formula of F=MA. show that as the mass increase, so does the force needed to keep accelerate it. Adding the relativistic correction for mass for object traveling at relativistic velocities mass for any form of matter would increase and the force needed would approach infinity as it approaches the speed of light. This includes dark matter.

Dark matter responds to gravity so what ever it is, it to possess inertia and rest mass, indicating that it obeys Special Relativity.

The only way it cannot is if it possess negative mass, making it in-effect Tachyonic. Since no indication of Tachyons have ever been detected we can only assume that dark matter are basically Sussy particles which are particle that possess different spin than normal matter and possess no electrical charges.

They would react with other particles thru either the nuclear strong force or nuclear weak force, both being very short range so unless they basically unless they collide with a particle of normal matter they would be invisible( as it stand there are detector setup to detect such collision in both the USA and Italy), and they also interact with normal matter thru gravity ( Explaining how galaxies stay together under their fairly high rotational velocities), and is the only present way we know of their existent.

The only way dark Matter can be use for a FTL is if Dark matter are Tachyons, the exact way this could be harness is mystery, using it as reaction mass could at best allow us to create a tachyon rocket that would allow us to accelerate a rocket to almost speed of light, but unless the rocket mass can be converted to Tachyon it would not be able to cross the light barrier.

dryson

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POSTS: 749

Report this Mar. 08 2010, 8:32 pm

Quote
The speed limit set by Relativity is due to the fact that Matter, even Dark matter would gain mass and inertia as it approaches the speed of light! Simple formula of F=MA. show that as the mass increase, so does the force needed to keep accelerate it. Adding the relativistic correction for mass for object traveling at relativistic velocities mass for any form of matter would increase and the force needed would approach infinity as it approaches the speed of light. This includes dark matter.

Dark matter responds to gravity so what ever it is, it to possess inertia and rest mass, indicating that it obeys Special Relativity.

The only way it cannot is if it possess negative mass, making it in-effect Tachyonic. Since no indication of Tachyons have ever been detected we can only assume that dark matter are basically Sussy particles which are particle that possess different spin than normal matter and possess no electrical charges.

They would react with other particles thru either the nuclear strong force or nuclear weak force, both being very short range so unless they basically unless they collide with a particle of normal matter they would be invisible( as it stand there are detector setup to detect such collision in both the USA and Italy), and they also interact with normal matter thru gravity ( Explaining how galaxies stay together under their fairly high rotational velocities), and is the only present way we know of their existent.

The only way dark Matter can be use for a FTL is if Dark matter are Tachyons, the exact way this could be harness is mystery, using it as reaction mass could at best allow us to create a tachyon rocket that would allow us to accelerate a rocket to almost speed of light, but unless the rocket mass can be converted to Tachyon it would not be able to cross the light barrier.


Are there any articles to back your statments up?

lanceromega

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POSTS: 3859

Report this Mar. 09 2010, 12:31 pm

Quote (dryson @ Mar. 07 2010, 9:32 pm)
Quote
The speed limit set by Relativity is due to the fact that Matter, even Dark matter would gain mass and inertia as it approaches the speed of light! Simple formula of F=MA. show that as the mass increase, so does the force needed to keep accelerate it. Adding the relativistic correction for mass for object traveling at relativistic velocities mass for any form of matter would increase and the force needed would approach infinity as it approaches the speed of light. This includes dark matter.

Dark matter responds to gravity so what ever it is, it to possess inertia and rest mass, indicating that it obeys Special Relativity.

The only way it cannot is if it possess negative mass, making it in-effect Tachyonic. Since no indication of Tachyons have ever been detected we can only assume that dark matter are basically Sussy particles which are particle that possess different spin than normal matter and possess no electrical charges.

They would react with other particles thru either the nuclear strong force or nuclear weak force, both being very short range so unless they basically unless they collide with a particle of normal matter they would be invisible( as it stand there are detector setup to detect such collision in both the USA and Italy), and they also interact with normal matter thru gravity ( Explaining how galaxies stay together under their fairly high rotational velocities), and is the only present way we know of their existent.

The only way dark Matter can be use for a FTL is if Dark matter are Tachyons, the exact way this could be harness is mystery, using it as reaction mass could at best allow us to create a tachyon rocket that would allow us to accelerate a rocket to almost speed of light, but unless the rocket mass can be converted to Tachyon it would not be able to cross the light barrier.


Are there any articles to back your statments up?

yes there is, which statement do you want proof on.

The ones dealing with dark matter and Relativity, or Tachyon rocket?

Remember  The mass of all the known matter in the Milky Way is not enough to keep the Sun in orbit around the galactic center. There must be some additional mass keeping the sun in
orbit. This mass is given the name dark matter. Dark matter may be WIMPS or MACHO¿s.

For dark matter and relativity see:

For Tachyonic rocket Rod clocks and dark matter

Dark matter

Origins of dark matter

if you need more let me more, as for tachyonic rocket see:

[URL= http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw61.html]Tachyonic rocket[/URL]

dryson

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POSTS: 749

Report this Mar. 09 2010, 8:43 pm

The ones that I am interested in Lancer would be articles that involve the types of pressure's created against a starships hull the faster it accelerates based upon the type of particles present in space and not created in the LHC or dark matter.

I am also interested in articles that have proven that the same particles encountered in space have been repelled by some type of reaction.

Alienradio

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POSTS: 12

Report this Mar. 09 2010, 11:43 pm

Quote (dryson @ Feb. 28 2010, 6:17 pm)
I was at another site discussing different approaches to faster than light travel which is at least possible in a fision reaction through water where the reaction travels 2c.

What we were discussing was the affects of friction on the hull of an airplane as it goes faster than the speed of sound.

An F-4 Phatom can only travel mach 2 to 2.4. Any attempts to go faster than this velocity would cause the aluminum hull to in essence catch fire and burn as a result of the hull contacting the atoms at a faster rate of velocity that ?causes friction. The more friction that occurs between the hull and atoms as a result of the craft going faster begins to break down the crafts metal hull structure. This is because as atoms heat up they move around alot faster just causing them to lose their cohesive bond to the other atoms which causes weaknesses in the fabric of the hull which them leads to structural failure and eventuall system wide failure resulting in the loss of the craft. The idea that I had was to line the hull of a ship with two layers of antenna's that would function the same as the first stage RF Coupler that would knock loose an electron from each atom that it encountered. The reason that this would be necessary would be that as the ship goes faster and encounters more atoms at anyone time the amount of friction would increase as would the weight of the atoms exerting their force against the ships hull as it traveled through space faster and faster. By relieving each of the atoms of an electron would change the actual atom to another atom which which maybe a lighter atom that would not create such a weight against the ship as it traveled faster and faster as well as creating less friction on ships hull that would keep the structural deterioration of the cohesive nature of the alloy used down to a minimum.

Quote
The primary purpose of the first RF coupler is to convert gas into plasma by ionizing it, or knocking an electron loose from each gas atom. It is known as the helicon section, because its coupler is shaped in such a way that it can ionize gas by launching helical waves through the gas.


Another means of creating a less ductile interaction between the atoms in space and the hull of a ship would be to add a lining of titanium to the outter surface of the ships hull of maybe an 1/8th of an inch. titanium as also non-magnetic which means will would not be as effected by a planets gravity or other areas of gravity that the ship may pass through.

Did you know that titanium is used in making the icing paint that is used on the M in M an M's?
http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/titanium/overview.php

The second layer of this field would be the opposite affect to ion that occurs in an ION Engine, where instead of attracting the ions to the grid the ions would be repelled away from the hull after being ionized by the RF coupler.

Now the only problem with this theory is that the antenna works on gas atoms, would the same process of how the RF coupler functions work on non-gaseous atoms in space work on the atoms that the radio frequency would encounter?

This would theoretically allow the Vasmr to achieve a faster overall rate of velocit when used in conjuction with the Vasimr/Ion Grid combination.

It takes four times as much energy to go twice as fast.
I.e 10,000hp for 300 mph jet
40,000hp for 600mph jet
120,000hp for 1200mph jet

Figures are aprox.

Enter the pals of black bag ops like those folks from Christians In Action, and No Such Agency.
The idea was hmmm lets go for makeing the air less dense and so our test jet can go faster?
Those folks mounted a high energy laser that heated the air in front of the jet and since superheated air is much, much thinner than cold air it was assumed that they had a Mach3 jet for cheap.......sure ha!

The problem was the laser needed way too much energy to keep fireing and thus superheat the air.
The project did work but then who needs a Mach3 jet for only seven minutes?
I expect that someday advances in laser power requirements will result in this design being used more since it does work but only for a very limited time with todays technology.

lanceromega

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Report this Mar. 10 2010, 9:39 am

Quote (dryson @ Mar. 08 2010, 9:43 pm)
The ones that I am interested in Lancer would be articles that involve the types of pressure's created against a starships hull the faster it accelerates based upon the type of particles present in space and not created in the LHC or dark matter.

I am also interested in articles that have proven that the same particles encountered in space have been repelled by some type of reaction.

Actually there is no pressure per say, but at extreme hi velocity the one or two Hydrogen atom per Cm cube of space could become a deadly particle beam. See :

Warp Kill

as for deflection while there are both countless articles on using either, electrical and magnetic fields, along with plasma bubbles, to deflect solar wind, cosmic rays and even radiation of solar flare, the hydrogen atoms in space would be neutral so these methods would not work.

dryson

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POSTS: 749

Report this Mar. 10 2010, 4:24 pm

Quote
as for deflection while there are both countless articles on using either, electrical and magnetic fields, along with plasma bubbles, to deflect solar wind, cosmic rays and even radiation of solar flare, the hydrogen atoms in space would be neutral so these methods would not work.


What about using a process to strip the hydrogen atom of a few electrons and then using electrical and magnetic fields to force away or repel the new atom that is no longer hydrogen but was once hydrogen.

When a pair of hydrogen isotopes fuse, the energy initially released is in the form of kinetic energy of recoiling particles.

So as long as the hydrogen isotopes do not fuse which I doubt that they will based on a passing starship then we should have any problems.

dryson

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POSTS: 749

Report this Mar. 10 2010, 5:30 pm

Here is an article that presents one layered response to repelling hydrogen atoms away from the surface of the ship traveling upwards to the speed of light.

Quote
The researchers believed the differing results were because of how the hydrogen moves. They speculated that the hydrogen diffused via a two-step process. A hydrogen atom has two parts: a positive nucleus and a negative electron. In diffusion, the lone electron nimbly hops over to the new location first. Then, the larger nucleus hefts itself to the new location.


During the process of the when the nucleus and electron are moving to their new locations is there a way to completely keep these two particles seperate until the ship has moved through the area of the particle?

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