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"Heath Care Summit"

natenemo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2658

Report this Feb. 25 2010, 12:22 pm

Well...The USA is about FREEDOM, not socialism.

dandandat

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POSTS: 3117

Report this Feb. 25 2010, 12:53 pm

its a waist of everyones time; whats new after a whole year of constant debate?

TheFounder

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POSTS: 15676

Report this Feb. 25 2010, 5:24 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Feb. 25 2010, 12:05 pm)
Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 25 2010, 2:35 pm)
As he should have.
What.. As he (Obama) should have? What? Shut McCain off??? Really??? The Dems have been all yack, yack, yack, and the Republicans (McCain) points out closed-door sweetheart pork deals and Obama tries to cut McCain off then accuses McCain of campaigning afte McCain finishes?

The people need to know about that stuff.

Now, a lot of what McCain may have done and talked about doing scared the stuffin' out of me. But the Democrats are swinging way too far the other way. It's as I've been saying, common sense has left the building and they both seem to be so out of touch being that extremism is the only way they seem to be able differentiate their platforms.

Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 25 2010, 2:38 pm)
Please tell me one good dem idea.
Quote (trekbuff @ Feb. 25 2010, 2:12 pm)
.. there are things Democrats can point to that the Republicans have advocated, they are the common sense or necessary things both parties advocate. ... Until they can come to a consensus and agree to pass a bill with the common sense things they both agree upon, debate and come to a consensus agreement on their minor differences and leave out the pork, we all lose.


The Republicans walking out wouldn't solve anything. It would only solidify the party of "no" label.

One thing I am getting tired of is Obama's persistence at saying us/we/our and you/your's.

McCain actually did have a good point about the "deal making".

TheFounder

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15676

Report this Feb. 25 2010, 5:37 pm

I was working and so I couldn't give the summit my undivided attention. From what I could gather, people on both sides of the issue will feel that "their team" made some good points. However, it's difficult to imagine that the Democrats are going to reap any substantial benefits from today's event. The Obama comes off as angry...



His body language and facial expressions are a long way from the smooth-talking snake oil salesman who only two years ago convinced people that he was for a balanced budget, closing Gitmo within a year and ending the NSA Warrantless Surveillance program (among other things.) The Obama also seems to be rather petulant.

Reid doesn't come across any better and both men gave the Republicans quite a bit of ground.

I'm no polling expert but I doubt that we are going to see a massive reversal in public opinion regarding Obamacare.

TheFounder

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15676

Report this Feb. 25 2010, 5:56 pm

Quote
I still want someone to tell me what "good" ideas the democrats presented?


Is it just me or were most of the other Democrats content to leave The Obama to fend for himself against the GOP?

Avenger_Class2009

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4035

Report this Feb. 25 2010, 6:07 pm

I thinks its all BULLSHIT

PhantomCrunk007

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POSTS: 5088

Report this Feb. 25 2010, 6:52 pm

Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 25 2010, 12:35 am)
Quote (trekbuff @ Feb. 25 2010, 3:05 pm)
Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 25 2010, 2:35 pm)
As he should have.
What.. As he (Obama) should have? What? Shut McCain off??? Really??? The Dems have been all yack, yack, yack, and the Republicans (McCain) points out closed-door sweetheart pork deals and Obama tries to cut McCain off then accuses McCain of campaigning afte McCain finishes?

The people need to know about that stuff.

Now, a lot of what McCain may have done and talked about doing scared the stuffin' out of me. But the Democrats are swinging way too far the other way. It's as I've been saying, common sense has left the building and they both seem to be so out of touch being that extremism is the only way they seem to be able differentiate their platforms.

Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 25 2010, 2:38 pm)
Please tell me one good dem idea.
Quote (trekbuff @ Feb. 25 2010, 2:12 pm)
.. there are things Democrats can point to that the Republicans have advocated, they are the common sense or necessary things both parties advocate. ... Until they can come to a consensus and agree to pass a bill with the common sense things they both agree upon, debate and come to a consensus agreement on their minor differences and leave out the pork, we all lose.


The Republicans walking out wouldn't solve anything. It would only solidify the party of "no" label.

One thing I am getting tired of is Obama's persistence at saying us/we/our and you/your's.

Republicans have the American people behind them.

They don't want this!! We WANT the "NO label" now. All Obama is doing is playing games.

Quote
All I hear is they can agree on "the problem", not the solution.


Your quote did not answer the question.
"Please tell me one good dem idea."

This is all political posturing and campaining.

It's joke they are talking about this bill. It if fiscally unresponsible.

If that is true, how com republicans have refused measure they once supported just 4 years ago?

Nuadha

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 377

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 1:26 am

Quote (natenemo @ Feb. 24 2010, 1:22 pm)
Well...The USA is about FREEDOM, not socialism.

Socialism isn't anti-freedom.   Sadly, the Socialist answer (single payer) isn't being discussed.

Nuadha

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 377

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 1:35 am

I wasn't able to see it, but have been watching the post-game wrap-up on FOX News.      Obviously, I will have to wait until I get another view to be anything close to fair and balanced, since all they have been doing is having Republican after Republican on saying how much better the the Republicans did and how the Democrats didn't say anything worth listening to.   I have watched for two hours and heard them interview, Sarah Palin, followed by John McCain, followed by two more Republicans.     The Republicans are sticking to their sound-bites of the Free-Market cure-all.    I wish it actually worked as they are doing a good job of selling it.

Ah, now they are showing anti-Obama protesters.     Again, no sign yet of showing the other side.        Almost two hours.....no interviews with any pro-Obama folks.

....and of course there is probably no one on any channel discussing the plan that has already worked for other countries: Single Payer Healthcare.    The UK started the NHS right after world war II and have been happy with it and are getting much better results for their money.    For folks who worry that you are giving away freedoms, there are private hospitals and private insurance in the UK that you can pay for if you want.     However, you have the freedom to choose.    Most people choose NHS.

Nuadha

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 377

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 2:48 am

More from Fox News:
They showed clips of silly faces the Democrats and Obama made during the summit.    They weren't really silly, but maybe they thought it would be amusing to their Republican viewers.         This would be the same as MSNBC showing clips of Bush's "monkey-faces."    Really?   This is fair and balanced?

They also had two more Republicans on to speak.   No Democrats yet.        One of the Republicans says that the answer for all our health care problems is to cut taxes, that it will give more money to people to buy health care.  

I have news for you:   Cutting my taxes completely would still not pay for my insurance, let alone all of the medical bills I get on top of my insurance, despite having a PPO.   If this wouldn't pay for me to get insurance, it certainly wouldn't pay for someone making less than me.  

Glenn Beck came on and started talking to people who write books saying that God is the answer to everything, so I switched the channel to MSNBC.    In 20 minutes I have seen them interview a Republican and a Democrat.   I have seen them play clips that make Obama look bad and right now they are playing an excellent clip of Obama talking about why health savings won't work.      

Chris Matthews was blasting Obama as being dismissive earlier and is now complimenting him over his remarks that health savings may work for members of congress, but they make 170,000 a year.   It doesn't work for someone making 40,000.

Man I wished I had been able to watch the summit.    I will have to check and see if they repeat it later on C-Span or something.

Corwin88

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 312

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 8:45 am

6 hours of taxpayer funded douchbaggery.  Nothing done, finger pointing, waste of time.

The taxpayers are the ones that lost the debate.  We all got boned.

Nuadha

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 377

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 8:59 am

Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 25 2010, 7:06 am)
Quote (Nuadha @ Feb. 26 2010, 1:35 am)
I wasn't able to see it, but have been watching the post-game wrap-up on FOX News. ? ? ?Obviously, I will have to wait until I get another view to be anything close to fair and balanced, since all they have been doing is having Republican after Republican on saying how much better the the Republicans did and how the Democrats didn't say anything worth listening to. ? I have watched for two hours and heard them interview, Sarah Palin, followed by John McCain, followed by two more Republicans. ? ? The Republicans are sticking to their sound-bites of the Free-Market cure-all. ? ?I wish it actually worked as they are doing a good job of selling it.

Ah, now they are showing anti-Obama protesters. ? ? Again, no sign yet of showing the other side. ? ? ? ?Almost two hours.....no interviews with any pro-Obama folks.

....and of course there is probably no one on any channel discussing the plan that has already worked for other countries: Single Payer Healthcare. ? ?The UK started the NHS right after world war II and have been happy with it and are getting much better results for their money. ? ?For folks who worry that you are giving away freedoms, there are private hospitals and private insurance in the UK that you can pay for if you want. ? ? However, you have the freedom to choose. ? ?Most people choose NHS.

What 2 hours did you watch?

I watched CNN for a while.I was watching Wolf's show, and it was apparent that the Republicans did a much better job their too.

...and it's not a "talking point". It's a fact. The free market is better at controlling costs than the government. What is the financial status of the UK?

Last I checked, the UK is no worse off than we are.

The Free Market only controls costs when there are a large number of companies that can offer the product and when anyone can start up that company with ease.    Someone will always be around to try and undercut the others.   However, there aren't enough insurance companies for price control, particularly when they can all charge that much.  


It is talking points, I am sorry.   It may be an idea, albeit a bad one, but it is also a talking point that the Republicans return to again and again....and have been for years.

It was the two hours before Glenn Beck.    It was Hannity and some other show.       I have since been able to catch the whole thing repeated on C-Span without all the crap commentary and here are my thoughts.

Both parties are screwed up.

The Republicans continue with their one-size fits all solution that they always try and use to fix everything.   Got a problem with the economy?  Cut taxes.   Health care?   Cut taxes.    Social Security?  Cut taxes.  No matter what it is, they think cutting taxes will fix the problem.    They also think deregulation will fix things, despite seeing time after time where the common man gets screwed after deregulation.    Just ask the people of California after they got bilked on energy thanks to deregulation.    They can't give a good reason why they think this will fix things for anyone but the wealthy.   Even if the government cut all taxes on the lower income brackets, that still would not leave them with money for health care.

I think they spoke well and passionately about what they wanted the solution to be, but gave no reason why this would actually fix the issue at hand.    In fact they seemed to miss the whole reason health care reform is needed and used it for another chance to push Republican ideas without addressing the actual issue.     Health Care savings plans don't help much when you don't have the money to save and trade between state lines won't help the costs when all of the states are paying way too much.

The Democrats also spoke very well.   They spoke of and seemed to understand the root of the problem.          However, they weren't really saying what they wanted.   Saying that they want "what is in the bill" doesn't help because the bill is so large at this point and we, the American people, have no idea.     I don't think they can break it down easily at this point thanks to all the crap compromises and stuff.

In other words, I think the Republicans presented a plan but no reason why their plan would work.   The Democrats presented a reason, but no plan.

One thing I have to agree with the Republicans on.  They should scrap it and start with a clean slate.  However, this time they should issue a series of small bills addressing individual things and ideas.   This keeps it from getting bloated.   Everyone agrees that the pre-existing condition clause needs to go, then pass it seperately.

Again, I am disappointed in the lack of a plan being presented on the so-called left.   Both left and right in other nations have agreed on health care plans that were much more ambitious and have met success.    Why aren't we talking about the systems used in these countries.    I would be happy with the system in Japan, Germany, the UK, France, Canada....the list goes on.     These are different from each other, but all have a huge advantage over ours: No one is getting denied care.   No one is going broke from an ER visit.

I think the German system could go over very well with the right in this country but I think American pride has us ignoring the other countries and how they have worked out the problems we are dealing with.

caltrek

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POSTS: 0

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 9:04 am

Well, I think the basic idea was a good one. To try and promote some genuine dialogue and debate and to do so in a manner that encouraged the American public to listen in. Judging from the comments made here, it doesn't seem to have done much more than that, but then Ten Forward may not be representative of the rest of the country. Beyond that, I have no opinions on the forum because I was also too busy working to pay sufficent attention to what was going on.

As to when the country is bankrupt, I think that will be when foreign countries no longer accept our currency, or accept it at highly lopsided exchange rates. We are a long way away from there, but I do agree that we need to be more careful to avoid approaching that point.

Personally, I think the policies I support would bring us far closer to a balanced budget then what so-called conservatives here at Ten Forward support. I mean look at the list of topics we have debated lately:

1) Should we continue to spend more money on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

2) Should government support the development of new nuclear power plants?

3) Should tax rates for the top 1% of income earners be raised?

In each case "conservatives" here have argued against decreased spending or increased revenues. They also oppose cost containment proposals that would give the government genuine bargaining power to drive down health care costs. Yet, people like me are accused of being fiscally irresponsible for proposing health care reform that would promote cost containment, in large part be self-financing, and would help the economy. Go figure.

Tin_Man

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POSTS: 4479

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 11:45 am

Quote (natenemo @ Feb. 24 2010, 1:22 pm)
Well...The USA is about FREEDOM, not socialism.

Wow I live in what's considered a Socialist country and I feel pretty dam free.

TrekFan1701E

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14979

Report this Feb. 26 2010, 2:07 pm

Mary Matilin who is married to James Carville sumrmed it up great in an interview and she said "Republicans think Health Care is a responsibility and Democrats think its a right."

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