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What i noticed about people who dont like STXI

PhantomCrunk007

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POSTS: 5088

Report this Feb. 22 2010, 2:30 am

Just some food for thought for the people who think that they know what is "right" for trek, but i noticed that the people who dont like the movie come in 2 different flavors.

1: J.J. Abrams has no creativity. His redoing of something shows a lack of talent/creativity and is proof that his handling of the franchise is a bad idea.


2: J.J. Abrams has changed trek so much that events like the whale probe or dealings with Khan will have changed and/or never happen and is proof that the direction of trek is wrong.

These are 2 completely opposite reactions to the film and they both cant be right. I'm just posting this to prove once and for all that a movie being good or bad is totally subjective because the people who don't like the movie cant even agree why they dislike it.

It all boils down to some people can't stand when things change in ways they don't like. Fact of the matter is, the movie was a success on numerous levels and proclaiming that you will not "kiss ass/ join the bandwagon/ blah blah blah" doesn't change anything.

Trying to prove a movie is bad to a bunch of people who actually liked and enjoyed it is a lot like putting a band aid on a dead body. You can do it, but what good are you doing?

RomulusRemus

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POSTS: 283

Report this Feb. 22 2010, 2:32 am

Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Feb. 22 2010, 2:30 am)
Trying to prove a movie is bad to a bunch of people who actually liked and enjoyed it is a lot like putting a band aid on a dead body. You can do it, but what good are you doing?

You can say the same thing about proving a movie is good to a group of people who really thought it sucked, you know.

PhantomCrunk007

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POSTS: 5088

Report this Feb. 22 2010, 2:33 am

Quote (RomulusRemus @ Feb. 21 2010, 11:32 am)
Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Feb. 22 2010, 2:30 am)
Trying to prove a movie is bad to a bunch of people who actually liked and enjoyed it is a lot like putting a band aid on a dead body. You can do it, but what good are you doing?

You can say the same thing about proving a movie is good to a group of people who really thought it sucked, you know.

Im not the one who try's to derail threads with their personal opinions. That is the difference.

MrsStarbuck

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POSTS: 4329

Report this Feb. 22 2010, 6:01 am

Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Feb. 21 2010, 8:30 am)
Just some food for thought for the people who think that they know what is "right" for trek, but i noticed that the people who dont like the movie come in 2 different flavors.

1: J.J. Abrams has no creativity. His redoing of something shows a lack of talent/creativity and is proof that his handling of the franchise is a bad idea.


2: J.J. Abrams has changed trek so much that events like the whale probe or dealings with Khan will have changed and/or never happen and is proof that the direction of trek is wrong.

These are 2 completely opposite reactions to the film and they both cant be right. I'm just posting this to prove once and for all that a movie being good or bad is totally subjective because the people who don't like the movie cant even agree why they dislike it.

It all boils down to some people can't stand when things change in ways they don't like. Fact of the matter is, the movie was a success on numerous levels and proclaiming that you will not "kiss ass/ join the bandwagon/ blah blah blah" doesn't change anything.

Wow, could you make any more sweeping generalisations?

There are many reasons why people didn't like the new film, and unfortunately you can't pigeonhole them all into the two categories you find easiest to refute.

And in fact, IMO most people seem to have thought the movie was 'okay' but then they still had complaints about it...totally legitimate. But sometimes it feels like the only opinion that's accepted on this board is "OMGZ the new movie ROX!!!"

I personally thought it was an enjoyable film, which managed to get a few fundamental things wrong (paper thin villain and unlikeable hero). That's got nothing to do with being scared of them 'changing Trek' because, like I've said many times, I saw this film BEFORE I saw TOS, and I still had these complaints.

Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Feb. 21 2010, 8:30 am)
Trying to prove a movie is bad to a bunch of people who actually liked and enjoyed it is a lot like putting a band aid on a dead body. You can do it, but what good are you doing?

I've got to agree with RomulusRemus on this...you can say EXACTLY the same thing for the people who liked the film trying to convince those that didn't that they somehow 'missed something' or that their opinion is just 'wrong'.

We are all (or mostly) adults here and are all entitled to our own opinions. I really can't see why some people fail to grasp this concept.

And even if there are some people who feel that JJ has changed Trek for the worse, so what? That's up to them.

A little tolerance from both sides would go a long way...

MrsStarbuck

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POSTS: 4329

Report this Feb. 22 2010, 9:11 am

Quote (ServalanFan @ Feb. 21 2010, 2:19 pm)
A lot of people hate claim they hate TOS because it is 'cheesy' and because of the poor special effects. I think this argument is stupid. The argument is stupid not the person. They are still entitled to their opinion even if it is the wrong one. ;)

Exactly.

I have a very dear friend who considers himself a huge Trekkie. He adores TNG, DS9, doesn't mind VOY...but he refuses to watch even one episode of TOS because 'it looks so old and cheesy'.

Now, of course I completely disagree with him, but it doesn't stop us from being the best of friends.

...although I'll always live in hope that one day he'll give TOS a go :laugh:

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Feb. 22 2010, 10:38 am

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Feb. 21 2010, 3:33 pm)
The people who dislike the movie agree why they dislike it and its quite simple:

It just ¿doesn't appeal to them.

I think it's even more layered than that, Bax.

Some people don't like it because it's not Shatner, Nimoy et. al.

Some people don't like it because it seems to mess with the old timeline.

Some people don't like it because it's not a very deep or thoughtful story.

Some people don't like it because the characters don't work for them.

Some people don't like it because it looks too modern.

You could mix and match many different complaints...and I think if you took ten people who didn't like this film and asked them to explain why then they'd all bring something different to the table...just like if you asked ten people to say what they liked about it, they'd all have different things to say too.

Okay, maybe the people who feel like this film has 'destroyed Trek' have been the ones who have shouted the loudest...but it's completely unfair for everyone who has a complaint against this film to be lumped together in the same boat.

In fact, I've actually lost track of who I considered 'for' and 'against' this film now. For example, Bax, I originally considered you one of the ones 'for' this film, as I considered TB to be...yet you have both made many posts pointing out the things you don't like in the film. As have a lot of other people.

Which just goes to show that it IS possible to have constructive criticisms about this film, without being one of those people who feels Trek is destroyed :cool:

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Feb. 22 2010, 11:10 am

I'm probably not making my point very well (no change there then). What I'm trying to say is that, I don't actually think there are many people who are so black and white on this film.

Parts of the film may not have appealed to them, but then at the same time, other parts they liked.

There seem to be very few people who just hate everything about the film...that's what I was trying (badly) to say.

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Feb. 22 2010, 11:14 am

^ Who is? Me?

For some reason I just can't stay out of these kind of threads! :blush: :laugh:

Kornula

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Report this Feb. 23 2010, 11:50 am

I hate this film because its poor filmmaking PERIOD. Ironically, I love the changes via time travel.. and I hate time travel stories

so, this blows your retarded theory out of the water.

DammitJim6200

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Report this Feb. 23 2010, 8:23 pm

Quote (Kornula @ Feb. 22 2010, 12:50 pm)
I hate this film because its poor filmmaking PERIOD. Ironically, I love the changes via time travel.. and I hate time travel stories

so, this blows your retarded theory out of the water.

Awesome ! :laugh:

PhantomCrunk007

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POSTS: 5088

Report this Feb. 23 2010, 8:50 pm

Hey, i call them like i see them. So far those are the two major complaints about the movie. As or poor film making, yes i've heard that complaint before but it isn't the major gripe by any means. As for Kornhole, WOW, you need more fiber, dude.

Tin_Man

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POSTS: 4479

Report this Feb. 24 2010, 9:23 am

Of course there are a couple of factions of note: The TNG crowd and the never wanted a re-boot crowd etc.

Personally I wanted something in the 25th Century but in the end after much gnashing of teeth I gave this concept a chance, went to see the movie and hated it.

Not because it wasn't TNG

Not because it was a reboot.

Not because it wasn't in the 25th century

I hated it because IMHO it was a terrible movie for a number of other reasons.


AND SO WHAT!


Hey the movie made a ton of money, not as much as Avatar but then again what does :laugh:

The studio is going to stay with the J J verse because it looks like it will keep making good money for them.
So for those who hate it do what I've done spend your money elsewhere. For the near and foreseeable future these new products the franchise is turning out isn't for us.

Conclusion
Each side in this needs to stop taking harsh pot shots at each other.
Debate is good (something that rarely happens on this site) flaming each other with no end in site just makes these message boards an even bigger waste of time.

Now that I have said this, promptly forget it and go back to the statuesque I.E. the on going flame war :laugh:

God_in_an_Alcove

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POSTS: 4538

Report this Feb. 24 2010, 10:34 am

Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Feb. 21 2010, 11:30 pm)
Just some food for thought for the people who think that they know what is "right" for trek, but i noticed that the people who dont like the movie come in 2 different flavors.

1: J.J. Abrams has no creativity. His redoing of something shows a lack of talent/creativity and is proof that his handling of the franchise is a bad idea.


2: J.J. Abrams has changed trek so much that events like the whale probe or dealings with Khan will have changed and/or never happen and is proof that the direction of trek is wrong.

These are 2 completely opposite reactions to the film and they both cant be right. I'm just posting this to prove once and for all that a movie being good or bad is totally subjective because the people who don't like the movie cant even agree why they dislike it.

It all boils down to some people can't stand when things change in ways they don't like. Fact of the matter is, the movie was a success on numerous levels and proclaiming that you will not "kiss ass/ join the bandwagon/ blah blah blah" doesn't change anything.

Trying to prove a movie is bad to a bunch of people who actually liked and enjoyed it is a lot like putting a band aid on a dead body. You can do it, but what good are you doing?

Only a select few constantly bashed Abrams about it. And those people are complete retards, considering that it wasn't Abrams that changed anything, but the writers.

Tin_Man

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POSTS: 4479

Report this Feb. 24 2010, 12:11 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Feb. 23 2010, 12:29 pm)
Really, PC? Hasn't it just about all been said?

I posted my review of STXI and still have much the same opinion.

I find it interesting the same group of folks could be behind STXI and Fringe. The cinematography of STXI was often nauseating spasms for the short-attention-span crowd while the intrigue, suspense and characters and their interactions are why I enjoy Fringe.

Here I go again with metaphors, so you'll have to forgive me ;)

I like a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee. Much more than that makes it coffee flavoured sugar water. Abrams packed lense flares and seizure inducing false action angle changes into STXI wherever he could fit them in. He took what could have been a much better movie/story without being a "talkie geekfest" and seemed to try to make an overwhelming action movie for mouth breathers. Should we really have to dig so deep to enjoy the story while being bombarded with distracting and often overwhelming special effects?

Dr. Carolyn Porco is a brilliant planetary scientist. She has also been able to maintain an almost childlike fascination with her work. She's a lucky lady, but has earned much respect in her field. Why then was she only called in as science advisor to make sure the planets in STXI looked good. STXI was otherwise a science nightmare. I'm not referring to fictional elements of the movie such as Red Matter. I'm talking about the real science. Trek is science fiction, not science fantasy. STXI was a science joke.

They said they would respect canon and made it very clear multiple times. Even with the change in the timeline, why did they move a known planet accross the universe when there was already one they could have used, T'Khut. Isn't Orci lauded as being a Trek fan?

At least we have a couple of members on these boards with interesting board names :)
Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Feb. 22 2010, 2:33 am)
Im not the one who try's to derail threads with their personal opinions. That is the difference.

Really? This thread is entirely about your personal opinion and chastising the opinions of others with whom you disagree.

Really, PC...

Bravo! Excellant post  :cool:

Eddogegr3

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POSTS: 235

Report this Feb. 24 2010, 2:17 pm

Can't we all just get along?

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