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Why no love for Shinzon?

Ali88

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POSTS: 889

Report this Feb. 17 2010, 2:56 pm

Why does everyone hate Shinzon and say he's the worst star trek movie villian

Shinzon is the best TNG movie villian BY FAR

He was a much better character than Soran, the Borg Queen and Ad'Har Ru'afo

Why does everyone think the borg queen is the best TNG movie villian? She wasn't that much of a meaningful character to the story, in fact if you completely removed the borg queen from First contact, the movie would be pretty much the same

Shinzon is the second best movie villian- Khan been number one obviously

Zaltar

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POSTS: 3014

Report this Feb. 17 2010, 3:22 pm

I thought Shinzon was a good villain.  Star Trek is always at its best when the characters have to face a personal challenge and in this case Picard had to face the darkness in himself and what his life might have been like if he had grown up in different conditions.  But the sad part of Shinzon was he did have the capacity to change but his anger was too strong.

SpaceTherapist

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 3:35 pm

Like they used Brent Spiner for B4 they should have had Patrick Stewart in a dual role as Picard and Shinzon. It would have made much better sense in my opinion.

Imagine how much more of an impact that initial scene would have had when the crew met Shinzon and it was Stewart playing Shinzon.

Zaltar

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POSTS: 3014

Report this Feb. 17 2010, 3:42 pm

Quote (SpaceTherapist @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:35 pm)
Imagine how much more of an impact that initial scene would have had when the crew met Shinzon and it was Stewart playing Shinzon.

They did think about doing that but I bet the reason why they didn't was it would have sent the budget up.

bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJ
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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 4:15 pm

Shinzon was an awful character.  

And taller than Picard.  Some clone. :eyesroll:

bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJ
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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 4:16 pm

Quote (SpaceTherapist @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:35 pm)
Like they used Brent Spiner for B4 they should have had Patrick Stewart in a dual role as Picard and Shinzon. It would have made much better sense in my opinion.

Imagine how much more of an impact that initial scene would have had when the crew met Shinzon and it was Stewart playing Shinzon.

I agree 100%.

bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJ
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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 4:19 pm

Quote (Zaltar @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:42 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:35 pm)
Imagine how much more of an impact that initial scene would have had when the crew met Shinzon and it was Stewart playing Shinzon.

They did think about doing that but I bet the reason why they didn't was it would have sent the budget up.

I think it would have brought the budget down.  The special effects used create that kind of illusion are pretty inexpensive.  It would probably cost more to pay another actor to play the role.

out_of_this_world

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 4:33 pm

I thought shinzon was a great character, and yeah you did have to suspend disbelief to see him as a clone of Picard but that sort of thing happens in films, I thought Tom Hardy did a brilliant job and I think he is a terrific actor. IMO shinzon is one of the best TNG era bad guys in general!

Vger23

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 8:02 pm

I actually agree that Shinzon may be the best villian of the TNG era films, to be honest.

I think Soran was almost entirely un-menacing and lackluster. He was basically an addict and escapist, but he wasn't menacing. Ru'affo was absolutely USELESS and almost laughable. I like F. Murray Abraham very much, but the character he was given to play was horrible. I think the Borg Queen, was pretty thin too. She was a temptress who seemed easily duped and had highly questionable personal motivations that were not consistent with the Borg. I also think the entire concept of a "Borg Queen," while fun for the film, really destroyed what made the Borg so menacing.

I really think Khan, Kruge, Nero, and Shinzon are my favorite Trek movie villians. I like General Chang, but he was a bit too cliche for my taste. I think a (nearly literal) moustache twirling regal and polite Klingon was not the best character to create a menacing atmosphere. I also like Sybok...but I don't necessarily classify him as a "villian..."

rocketscientist

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 8:57 pm

Why do we hate Shinzon?  Because he's a whiny, dress-wearing, effeminate, frustrated virgin who's so mad at daddy Picard for not rescuing him from those mean Romulans that he wants to go postal on everyone on earth!  

Basically, he's a frustrated, cross-dressing teenager who had a bad childhood and can't get laid because girls think he's a freak.  

Now, how in the world could someone like that ever be a cool villain the audience can get respect and even like?  

As far as the TNG films go, I'd say from best to worst

1.  Borg Queen
2.  Soran
3.  Ru'afo
4.  Shinzon

It's a tough call between Ru'afo and Shinzon.  I thought Ru'afo, the whiny plastic surgery addict, sucked too.

DS9TREK

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 9:15 pm

Quote (bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJoint @ Feb. 17 2010, 9:19 pm)
Quote (Zaltar @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:42 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:35 pm)
Imagine how much more of an impact that initial scene would have had when the crew met Shinzon and it was Stewart playing Shinzon.

They did think about doing that but I bet the reason why they didn't was it would have sent the budget up.

I think it would have brought the budget down. ¿The special effects used create that kind of illusion are pretty inexpensive. ¿It would probably cost more to pay another actor to play the role.

It holds filming up and that IS expensive. Instead of "we've filmed Patrick's close-up now get ready for Tom's". It's "right everyone wait around now, Patrick's got to drive over to costume and make-up to change".

Zaltar

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POSTS: 3014

Report this Feb. 17 2010, 9:16 pm

Quote (bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJoint @ Feb. 17 2010, 4:19 pm)
Quote (Zaltar @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:42 pm)
Quote (SpaceTherapist @ Feb. 17 2010, 3:35 pm)
Imagine how much more of an impact that initial scene would have had when the crew met Shinzon and it was Stewart playing Shinzon.

They did think about doing that but I bet the reason why they didn't was it would have sent the budget up.

I think it would have brought the budget down. ¿The special effects used create that kind of illusion are pretty inexpensive. ¿It would probably cost more to pay another actor to play the role.

I guess you're right but Patrick may have wanted more money to do a duo role.  

Some trivia most people might not know is that both Patrick & Brent took a small pay cut to help keep the films budget low.

Zaltar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3014

Report this Feb. 17 2010, 9:18 pm

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Feb. 17 2010, 5:00 pm)
Shinzon is a good villan, and is definately better than Nero. Even though Nero was more thought out.

Amen!

TaoTrek

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 11:52 pm

I actually enjoyed watching Shinzon in NEM. He was definitely more entertaining to watch than that creepy Borg Queen.

KALEL

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POSTS: 1512

Report this Feb. 18 2010, 3:08 am

I thought the concept of Shinzon was good. The way they chose to protray him IMO was not. I loved the movie, but this whiny, dress wearing kid was just too much. My top villians are

Kahn- 'nuff said.

Veger- I think that although Veger wasn't an actual "villian" as opposed to an adversary, it was a great concept in the Nomad style.

General Chang- I liked this guy. Not the typical Klingon. He had a flair for the dramatic.

The "God" being in TFF-Yeah, he only got a brief appearance, but he should've been the main adversary the whole time. Plus, the questions Kirk asked him were classic: "God" guy: "who is this person addressing me?"
Kirk: "don't you know? Aren't you God?"
And finally: Kirk: "What does God need with a starship?"

Nero- His character was well thought out.

Soran

Ru'afo- This guy was bordering on Shinzon. He was whiney without the dress.

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