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What We Deserved in TATV

ViperMan2000

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Report this Feb. 15 2010, 12:33 am

Think about some of the Star Trek finales we've seen in the past.

TNG: The Next Generation started with the introduction of a very big character, Q. He challenged the entire human race. The crew of the Enterprise answered that challenge, and were able to get on with their exploration. But, Q remained a recurring character, coming back several times throughout the series. Then we come to the series finale. Not only did it connect everything back to that first episode, but it also put the existence of the entire galaxy on the line. It involved true sacrifice, on the part of 3 crews of the USS Enterprise, and especially on the part of Jean Luc Picard. He proceeded to save the Galaxy, his friends, and prove to Q that he was wrong in his assumptions about the entire Human race.

DS9: I honestly know very little about DS9. I've seen scattered episodes, and usually none of them were the type that connected to some of the major arcs in the series. But, I know this. DS9 started in a very big way, as well. It introduced the prophets, and all that interesting stuff that if I said any more about it I would have to start making stuff up. It also introduced the Worm Hole to the Gamma Quadrant. Soon, we met the Dominion, from the Gamma Quadrant, and the Dominion War started. So, what did we get for a series finale? The series finale put an end to all these major arcs. It finished the Dominion War. It saw Sisko fulfill all these prophesies, or something like that. It also showed all the main characters going their separate ways.

VOY: Voyager once again started with a major idea. The ship Voyager, and all its crew, were flung to the opposite side of the galaxy, along with a Maquis ship. They had to work together to try to get home. That was the whole point of the show. We also saw many appearances by the Borg in Voyager. They were a very major species in the show, being based in the Delta Quadrant. So, once again, what did we get for the series finale? A full circle. The crew finally find a way home. But to do so, they have to fight their way through a Borg-infested nebula. What's at risk? All of their lives, as well as the destruction of the Federation's most dangerous enemy, the Borg. And, they successfully accomplished all of this, arriving home and destroying the Borg all at once.

I would also like to point out that all of these finales were two-hour episodes, based on the characters of their respective series. They were also very well written and epic in scale.

Ok, now we come to Enterprise. The first episode of Star Trek's latest show is Broken Bow. Earth must return a Klingon to his homeworld. But the Suliban aren't going to make this an easy matter. This episode establishes one of the biggest ideas in all of Star Trek: The Temporal Cold War. This idea could have been on a scale greater than anything we've ever seen in Star Trek before. And, Enterprise did explore this idea in several more episodes, but they never gave it justice. Anyway, back on subject...

What do we get for an Enterprise series finale? TATV. This episode isn't even based on Enterprise. It's based on TNG. That's great... Ok, what's at risk in what should have been the grandest finale of them all? Shran's daughter. Um... How good of a job did it do at connecting the whole series together and making it one complete, great series? Well...

So, what should TATV have been? Well, for one thing, it should have been 2 hours long. That's an obvious one. In my opinion, if they can't even make the final episode of the whole series two hours long, then it isn't a strong enough story to close a series with. Next, it should have been about Enterprise. In all the other series finales that we've seen, we've got to see some great finales to great characters. And... we actually got to see the characters. They were what the whole story was about. Third, the entire episode needed to be on a much larger scale than it was. I mean, the Enterprise saved Earth from the entire Xindi species, and they couldn't even keep one shuttle from docking?! That's pretty pathetic. Back on topic again, no matter how great Shran is, I don't think the last episode should have been about his daughter whom we never knew he had.

And, what happened to the Temporal Cold War? The ENTIRE series was founded on the Temporal Cold War. The least they could have done was make that the ending of the show as well. And there are so many great possibilities in the TCW that they could have done nearly anything. They could have made the last episode epic, something that we actually cared about, something that kept us on the edge of our seats. Then, if they had killed Trip, it could have been for a reason. His death could have been a sacrifice that saved the entire crew, or even the entire universe. We could have appreciated his sacrifice.

And, finally, we come to the founding of the United Federation of Planets. This is something that not only is Enterprise based on, but all of Star Trek as well. The series started with the first Earth ship to ever go exploring, and that built up to the start of the UFP. This is what Enterprise was about. This is what Star Trek is about. We deserved to see it. Even if they didn't write Archer's whole speech, (as I'm sure in real life it would have been quite long,) they could have created an abridged version. They could have had a montage showing all the people that made this Federation possible with parts of Archer's great speech being heard in the background. He could have talked about all the sacrifice that made everything they were doing a reality, from the great people that lost their lives fighting in the Romulan War, to Trip, who sacrificed himself to save his friends. At that same time, they could have shown a shot of T'Pol, sitting with Trip's parents, trying to keep back the tears, and holding Trip's mother's hand tight as Archer comes to that point. Then Archer glances down at her. I think that that is what we deserved to get out of the finale of Enterprise.

Anyway... I think I got a little carried away there. :D Umm... Thoughts?

ViperMan2000

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Report this Feb. 15 2010, 12:52 am

Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Feb. 15 2010, 12:33 am)
At that same time, they could have shown a shot of T'Pol, sitting with Trip's parents, trying to keep back the tears, and holding Trip's mother's hand tight as Archer comes to that point.

Yes, this part was adopted from someone else's idea. If I remembered where I read this, I would give them credit. Sorry.

lostshaker

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Report this Feb. 15 2010, 1:04 am

TATV is not without its faults. There are many problems. Many fans feel cheated, because it's generally felt that it should have been solely about the crew of the NX-01. I won't speak to what anybody should feel, but the episode is not meant to be viewed as an episode of ENT or even as an episode of TNG. It was meant to be viewed as an ending of the eighteen year continuous-era of STAR TREK started in 1987 with TNG. In that respect it comes full circle.

The idea was high concept, which perhaps necessitated a longer and different story to make it work. It obviously didn't accomplish what it set out to do, so it very much failed. When I first saw TATV, it was a very depressing night with my roommates, but not because of the story. We were more crushed that our 18 year history with Trek was ending. It had been there for us for over 3/4 of our lives. So I consider Demons and Terra Prime to be the finale of ENT and TATV to be a wrap up of 18 years (Thankfully Martin and Mangles have continued ENT on beautifully AND if nothing else TATV served as a great launchpad for their efforts).

I believe "All Good Things" is still the best finale and ranks among the best of Trek. It was high concept, every character had something to do, there was no bad guy, and the conflict was born from humanity itself.
Terra Prime and Demons is a very close second. Even though it has a bad guy, it has a very real bad guy that exists in shades of gray. Voyager's finale was good (but Seven and Chakotay just seemed forced) and DS9 comes in last though I still think it was good (the ending with Dukat seemed tact on and I'm not a big fan of finales using a montage of "memories". I'm a loyal fan and remember such episodes, and in the case of DS9 probably watched them the week before). I don't think it's fair to compare TOS' finale "Turnabout Intruder" (not that you did, Viperman, just speaking for myself on this note).

With all its faults, I will take TATV over Abrams' atrocity any day as nothing looks quite so bad when in perspective.

grigori

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Report this Feb. 15 2010, 10:18 am

I'm with lostshaker! take Demons/Terra Prime as the finale, along with that Coalition speech we DID hear, and ENT's send-off is of the same caliber as any Trek finale. I just think of it like that. I don't imagine anything replacing TATV as a result, 'cause I DID get the finale I wanted.

No matter how far we travel or how fast we get there, the most profound discoveries are not necessarily beyond that next star. They're within us, woven into the threads that bind us. All of us, to each other.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Feb. 15 2010, 10:20 am

I do consider Demons and Terra Prime to be Enterprise's finale. It had everything in it that I said we deserved from TATV. It had a very good story with a lot of depth, thus taking it to a two-part episode. It was character-based as well. We got to see great scenes with Hoshi taking command, Mayweather with his... S.O, T'Pol and Trip with their child, Malcolm with his Covert Ops, and Archer giving his speech. These episodes had a much grander scale than sacrificing oneself for Shran's daughter as well. The outcome of this episode would affect the entire Coalition of Planets and the future of all of Star Trek. And we actually got to see Archer give a meaningful, great speech.

If you consider these as the last two episodes, then yes, they were really good. Of course, though, if they still felt it necessary to make TATV after that, then my OP stands as far as what I think it needed. :D

lostshaker

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Report this Feb. 15 2010, 11:41 am

Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 15 2010, 9:03 am)
Quote (lostshaker @ Feb. 15 2010, 1:04 am)
With all its faults, I will take TATV over Abrams' atrocity any day as nothing looks quite so bad when in perspective.

:O Wasn't expecting that. I take it you are not a fan of the new movie? Not for discussion here, but please post your review in my movie thread if you get a chance.

Yanks' movie review

I've got a review/reaction to it wherever that May 8 thread is. Might take a little bit of time to find it.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Feb. 15 2010, 12:03 pm

Quote (Yanks @ Feb. 15 2010, 11:44 am)
AAARRRHHHHHHH!!!!! I spent an hour typing a reponse, put my computer "a sleep" so I could go run some errunds, return, the Windows ask me for my password and it won't accept it!!!!!!! Now I have to start all over again!!!!!! :grr:

A response to my OP? Aw... That's annoying. Well, if you retype it, I look forward to seeing it.

TaoTrek

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Report this Feb. 16 2010, 5:53 pm

When I first saw TATV on Syfy some time ago, I found it to be one of the most confusing episodes I had ever seen. Just about every episode I had seen at that time was random, so I guess my view of it is colored by that fact. Irregardless, I found TATV to be very confusing in that I had no idea of what was going on, what the plotline was, why Riker and Troi were being shown and why Trip had somehow killed himself one minute and reappeared again the next.

Thank TPTB that I eventually found Memory Alpha to help me with the structure of the episode in relation to the others. Today, I find TATV to be rather boring to watch and I'm quite thankful that TGTMD exists to help continue the ENT storyline.

grigori

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Report this Feb. 16 2010, 6:30 pm

Confusing is a good way to put it, TaoTrek. I had watched all the episodes but watched TATV in a perpetual state of feeling like I had really "missed" something major, over and over again. Things that make you go "Wa-ah?"

TaoTrek

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Report this Feb. 16 2010, 7:25 pm

Quote (grigori @ Feb. 16 2010, 4:30 pm)
Confusing is a good way to put it, TaoTrek. I had watched all the episodes but watched TATV in a perpetual state of feeling like I had really "missed" something major, over and over again. Things that make you go "Wa-ah?"

I felt the exact same way with TATV. The whole structure of the episode DOES feel like something BIG happened and everyone's talking about it. Thankfully, we have TGTMD to help us fill in the blanks about what REALLY happened. ¿ ¿:cool:

grigori

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Report this Feb. 16 2010, 8:09 pm

Quote (TaoTrek @ Feb. 16 2010, 7:25 pm)
Thankfully, we have TGTMD to help us fill in the blanks about what REALLY happened. :cool:

Glad you're a fan of the books!...Did you read the incredible WTH epilogue in Martin/Mangel's Last Full Measure? They revealed that Trip was still alive...but you had to wait for The Good That Men Do to find out what on earth was going on! :)

TaoTrek

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 9:25 pm

Quote (grigori @ Feb. 16 2010, 6:09 pm)
Quote (TaoTrek @ Feb. 16 2010, 7:25 pm)
Thankfully, we have TGTMD to help us fill in the blanks about what REALLY happened. :cool:

Glad you're a fan of the books!...Did you read the incredible WTH epilogue in Martin/Mangel's Last Full Measure? They revealed that Trip was still alive...but you had to wait for The Good That Men Do to find out what on earth was going on! :)

TBH, the only reason that I got TGTMD was because I was ordering the three ST books that deal with the rise and downfall of Khan on Amazon and I was able to receive a fourth book for free. TGTMD looked interesting, so I ordered it as well and I quickly got hooked on the relauch novels. I've never read LFM so I have no idea what the epilogue says. Is the ending really epic?

Enterprise19

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 9:53 pm

Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Feb. 15 2010, 12:33 am)
Then, if they had killed Trip, it could have been for a reason. His death could have been a sacrifice that saved the entire crew, or even the entire universe. We could have appreciated his sacrifice.

At that same time, they could have shown a shot of T'Pol, sitting with Trip's parents, trying to keep back the tears, and holding Trip's mother's hand tight as Archer comes to that point.

Trip kind of sacrificed himself for Shran and his daughter, and that was better than dying for no reason. I'm glad he didn't just fall off that thing that came loose in the fight scene. But if I had written TATV, Trip wouldn't have died at all.

I always wanted to see Trip's parents on Star Trek. We saw members of everyone else's family except for him.(Lizzy was only in his dream, so that doesn't count.)

And the speech! Why didn't they at least show the beginning and not Riker and Troi talking about memorizing it? This is Enterprise, not TNG!

After I saw the episode, I had an empty feeling. The show didn't get a proper ending and one of my favorite characters died unnecessarily. A good story maybe for a movie, but Enterprise deserved better.

grigori

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 10:04 pm

Quote (TaoTrek @ Feb. 17 2010, 9:25 pm)
I've never read LFM so I have no idea what the epilogue says. Is the ending really epic?

The actual story has nothing to do with the wacky Trip-is-alive?? bombshell, but is rather a story about the MACO's coming on board and trying to fit in with the crew during the beginning of the Xindi conflict.

Not really "epic", rather a prologue then an epilogue...well, I've given it away, but surely everyone by now know that Trip is alive for the relaunch novels. The prologue/epilogue takes place several decades in the future, an old man who's some kind of Starfleet veteran visiting the Monument to those lost in the Xindi attack then also the Romulan War which came not long after.

So it's all tied nicely into a preview of The Good That Men Do, Trip being alive, and Romulans.

TaoTrek

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Report this Feb. 17 2010, 10:06 pm

Quote (grigori @ Feb. 17 2010, 8:04 pm)
Quote (TaoTrek @ Feb. 17 2010, 9:25 pm)
I've never read LFM so I have no idea what the epilogue says. Is the ending really epic?

The actual story has nothing to do with the wacky Trip-is-alive?? bombshell, but is rather a story about the MACO's coming on board and trying to fit in with the crew during the beginning of the Xindi conflict.

Not really "epic", rather a prologue then an epilogue...well, I've given it away, but surely everyone by now know that Trip is alive for the relaunch novels. The prologue/epilogue takes place several decades in the future, an old man who's some kind of Starfleet veteran visiting the Monument to those lost in the Xindi attack then also the Romulan War which came not long after.

So it's all tied nicely into a preview of The Good That Men Do, Trip being alive, and Romulans.

:cool:

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