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'The oppression of Aboriginal people

Beccs_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 41931

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 7:05 pm

Quote (Bekky @ Feb. 08 2010, 8:01 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 6:50 pm)
Quote (Bekky @ Feb. 08 2010, 7:44 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 6:35 pm)
Race relations in general is a mess in many of the colonised nations.

There's also a lot of internal divisions among the various native groups themselves, even in nations that haven't been colonised, ?Ruanda is a good example of this.

THe situation has improved and is improving in Australia, though there are still problems.

Remember that within your home nation of Vietnam there are ethnic problems periodically between the majority Vietnamese and the mountain peoples.

It's NOT a uniquely Australian issue and pointing out the problems in only one nation without making reference to the global problem seems to be somewhat biased.

Forgive me I did not intend to come off as signaling out one nation; but I feel it would be a mess to talk about the problems of all nations in one thread, so I chose one.

You are right Vietnam has a lot of problems; my grandfather and uncle where killed not to long after war because they were part of the ?wrong? group.

As an Australian how would you improve further the problems with the Aboriginal people?

For a start I would investigate why the situation is the way it is and the underlying cause. ?I would also try to get the people off their benefit dependency and get them working, even if it's just to improve their own local communities.

That's a very simplified approach. ?The problem runs a lot deeper than that, and is a lot more complex, but you have to start somewhere.

What do you think of Yabu Bilyana and his beliefs on Capitalism?

Would Aboriginal people and the sweatshop workers be better off if Australia adopted a more socialistic approach as Yabu Bilyana suggests?

Didn't read the whole thing.  He's entitled to his opinions and some of them have merit.  Some point to a very obvious agenda.

Socialism?  We already have a watered down version here.  Money is important to the economy.  Without ot we wouldn't have the aid agencies in place that we do.

Bekky

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 68

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 7:11 pm

Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 7:05 pm)
Quote (Bekky @ Feb. 08 2010, 8:01 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 6:50 pm)
Quote (Bekky @ Feb. 08 2010, 7:44 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 6:35 pm)
Race relations in general is a mess in many of the colonised nations.

There's also a lot of internal divisions among the various native groups themselves, even in nations that haven't been colonised, ?Ruanda is a good example of this.

THe situation has improved and is improving in Australia, though there are still problems.

Remember that within your home nation of Vietnam there are ethnic problems periodically between the majority Vietnamese and the mountain peoples.

It's NOT a uniquely Australian issue and pointing out the problems in only one nation without making reference to the global problem seems to be somewhat biased.

Forgive me I did not intend to come off as signaling out one nation; but I feel it would be a mess to talk about the problems of all nations in one thread, so I chose one.

You are right Vietnam has a lot of problems; my grandfather and uncle where killed not to long after war because they were part of the ?wrong? group.

As an Australian how would you improve further the problems with the Aboriginal people?

For a start I would investigate why the situation is the way it is and the underlying cause. ?I would also try to get the people off their benefit dependency and get them working, even if it's just to improve their own local communities.

That's a very simplified approach. ?The problem runs a lot deeper than that, and is a lot more complex, but you have to start somewhere.

What do you think of Yabu Bilyana and his beliefs on Capitalism?

Would Aboriginal people and the sweatshop workers be better off if Australia adopted a more socialistic approach as Yabu Bilyana suggests?

Didn't read the whole thing. ¿He's entitled to his opinions and some of them have merit. ¿Some point to a very obvious agenda.

Socialism? ¿We already have a watered down version here. ¿Money is important to the economy. ¿Without ot we wouldn't have the aid agencies in place that we do.

If you and other nations adopted real robust Socialism than you wouldn¿t need aid agencies. The whole country would be an aid agency; and once the west fixes some of their own social problems they can begin to repay some of the damage they caused others.

Beccs_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 41931

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 7:15 pm

Quote (Bekky @ Feb. 08 2010, 8:11 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 7:05 pm)
Quote (Bekky @ Feb. 08 2010, 8:01 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 6:50 pm)
Quote (Bekky @ Feb. 08 2010, 7:44 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Feb. 09 2010, 6:35 pm)
Race relations in general is a mess in many of the colonised nations.

There's also a lot of internal divisions among the various native groups themselves, even in nations that haven't been colonised, ?Ruanda is a good example of this.

THe situation has improved and is improving in Australia, though there are still problems.

Remember that within your home nation of Vietnam there are ethnic problems periodically between the majority Vietnamese and the mountain peoples.

It's NOT a uniquely Australian issue and pointing out the problems in only one nation without making reference to the global problem seems to be somewhat biased.

Forgive me I did not intend to come off as signaling out one nation; but I feel it would be a mess to talk about the problems of all nations in one thread, so I chose one.

You are right Vietnam has a lot of problems; my grandfather and uncle where killed not to long after war because they were part of the ?wrong? group.

As an Australian how would you improve further the problems with the Aboriginal people?

For a start I would investigate why the situation is the way it is and the underlying cause. ?I would also try to get the people off their benefit dependency and get them working, even if it's just to improve their own local communities.

That's a very simplified approach. ?The problem runs a lot deeper than that, and is a lot more complex, but you have to start somewhere.

What do you think of Yabu Bilyana and his beliefs on Capitalism?

Would Aboriginal people and the sweatshop workers be better off if Australia adopted a more socialistic approach as Yabu Bilyana suggests?

Didn't read the whole thing. ?He's entitled to his opinions and some of them have merit. ?Some point to a very obvious agenda.

Socialism? ?We already have a watered down version here. ?Money is important to the economy. ?Without ot we wouldn't have the aid agencies in place that we do.

If you and other nations adopted real robust Socialism than you wouldn?t need aid agencies. The whole country would be an aid agency; and once the west fixes some of their own social problems they can begin to repay some of the damage they caused others.

Hardline socialism doesn't work any better than hardline capitalism.

People claim it to be the perfect political method, but the real world shows differently.

It looks like people have been reporting your account quite a bit and it's about to disappear.

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 7:36 pm

Well ,since the article given is well and truely dated (back in 1999) , there has been a decade of developments.

I'm an Australian and have no aboriginal decent .

Under Howard , aboriginal land was reannexed and made federal land .
Under Howard , many aboriginal settlements were allowed to become very run down to the point that many houses became uninhabitable hovels , and many aboriginal settlements now are so bad that they would not look out of place in a 3rd world nation.
Under Howard , the rights of aboriginals to live there lives without interference were taken away , the claim was that aboriginals (expecially the men) would buy drugs, booze, and pot and cigarettes, ?and pornography before buying food for their children , and they were engaging in pedophilia and assalting their women , so under pain of losing their benefits (many aboriginals live on aboriginal reserves in settlements where there is no work or prospects for employment and too far away from anywhere where their might be work (for unskilled labor), the Howard government decided to penalise the aboriginals (especially in the NT) taking their benefits off them if their kids failed to attend school (every day) , and they followed up by taking control of their money through Centrelink and keeping a big part of the money set aside that could only be used to pay for food and schooling.


Labor was in power in the 1970s only. Most of time since WWII , the conservatives were in power and the blame for the situation the aboriginals are in is there's.
As to the situation the aboriginals in WA, Qld, NT find themselves in ?having anything to do with effects of socialism .... the answer is no , not since the 1980s (as we had the Liberal/Nat coalition in charge federally for the entire 1990s and up til 2 years ago. So the blame lays squarely with Howard and his mob of concervatives who had over a decade to help the aboriginals and did nothing other than blame them for being victims of the system.

Medicare was introduced by Labor in the 1970s , this entitles every Australian to ¿health and hospital care , if you are on benefits (Dole, a pensioner) , it is free.
The Howard government introduced slavery for people on the dole (called Work for the Dole , was supposed to be entirely voluntary and supposed to help long term unemployed get work skills .... turned into a compulsory (do it or no money) activity where you are allocated to do menial laboring jobs (up to 3 days a week) for no extra money or a token additional payment ($10 / week ??) and provide the LT unemployed no worthwhile skills that can be added to their CVs , this was imposed on the aboriginals with a vengence by them , the aim being to persecute the aboriginals and force them to leave their settlements.

Bekky_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 18

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 7:51 pm

Quote (Somerled_ex_Siistertrek @ Feb. 09 2010, 7:36 pm)
Well ,since the article given is well and truely dated (back in 1999) , there has been a decade of developments.

I'm an Australian and have no aboriginal decent .

Under Howard , aboriginal land was reannexed and made federal land .
Under Howard , many aboriginal settlements were allowed to become very run down to the point that many houses became uninhabitable hovels , and many aboriginal settlements now are so bad that they would not look out of place in a 3rd world nation.
Under Howard , the rights of aboriginals to live there lives without interference were taken away , the claim was that aboriginals (expecially the men) would buy drugs, booze, and pot and cigarettes, ?and pornography before buying food for their children , and they were engaging in pedophilia and assalting their women , so under pain of losing their benefits (many aboriginals live on aboriginal reserves in settlements where there is no work or prospects for employment and too far away from anywhere where their might be work (for unskilled labor), the Howard government decided to penalise the aboriginals (especially in the NT) taking their benefits off them if their kids failed to attend school (every day) , and they followed up by taking control of their money through Centrelink and keeping a big part of the money set aside that could only be used to pay for food and schooling.


Labor was in power in the 1970s only. Most of time since WWII , the conservatives were in power and the blame for the situation the aboriginals are in is there's.
As to the situation the aboriginals in WA, Qld, NT find themselves in ¿having anything to do with effects of socialism .... the answer is no , not since the 1980s (as we had the Liberal/Nat coalition in charge federally for the entire 1990s and up til 2 years ago. So the blame lied squarely with Howard and his mob of concervatives who had over a decade to help the aboriginals and did nothing other than blame them for being victims of the system.

So Somerled_ex_Siistertrek; are you saying things are now worse for the Aboriginal people than it was when Yabu Bilyana made his speech?

Why has the Australian people allowed this to happen?

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 8:02 pm

Quote (Bekky_ @ Feb. 08 2010, 9:51 pm)
Quote (Somerled_ex_Siistertrek @ Feb. 09 2010, 7:36 pm)
Well ,since the article given is well and truely dated (back in 1999) , there has been a decade of developments.

I'm an Australian and have no aboriginal decent .

Under Howard , aboriginal land was reannexed and made federal land .
Under Howard , many aboriginal settlements were allowed to become very run down to the point that many houses became uninhabitable hovels , and many aboriginal settlements now are so bad that they would not look out of place in a 3rd world nation.
Under Howard , the rights of aboriginals to live there lives without interference were taken away , the claim was that aboriginals (expecially the men) would buy drugs, booze, and pot and cigarettes, ?and pornography before buying food for their children , and they were engaging in pedophilia and assalting their women , so under pain of losing their benefits (many aboriginals live on aboriginal reserves in settlements where there is no work or prospects for employment and too far away from anywhere where their might be work (for unskilled labor), the Howard government decided to penalise the aboriginals (especially in the NT) taking their benefits off them if their kids failed to attend school (every day) , and they followed up by taking control of their money through Centrelink and keeping a big part of the money set aside that could only be used to pay for food and schooling.


Labor was in power in the 1970s only. Most of time since WWII , the conservatives were in power and the blame for the situation the aboriginals are in is there's.
As to the situation the aboriginals in WA, Qld, NT find themselves in ?having anything to do with effects of socialism .... the answer is no , not since the 1980s (as we had the Liberal/Nat coalition in charge federally for the entire 1990s and up til 2 years ago. So the blame lied squarely with Howard and his mob of concervatives who had over a decade to help the aboriginals and did nothing other than blame them for being victims of the system.

So Somerled_ex_Siistertrek; are you saying things are now worse for the Aboriginal people than it was when Yabu Bilyana made his speech?

Why has the Australian people allowed this to happen?

Yes , that would be an accurate assessment . As an Australian I think it's shameful.

The current labor government is working to improve things , but they have a huge task ahead of them and it is going to take time , plus they have to get every measure past the Senate which is controlled by the opposition who are hell bent on opposing everything, especially anything that undoes anything they instigated.

Why was it allowed to happen ? well , most aboriginal reserves and settlements are well and truely remote (from the major cities) so most Australians never see them (except occasionally on SBS or ABC when the aboriginal situation is discussed or something bad happens in a community) , out of sight = out of mind.
Many (expecially concervatives) regard aboriginals as inferior and even subhuman , stupid , lazy , and as bludgers and as troublemakers , characterisations regularly propogated by the commercial networks and newpapers in programs like 7's TodayTonight , and like 60Minutes which regularly engages in character assassinations of people who are unemployed, who are fat, who are aboriginal, who are refugees and which does so with very little actual investigation and are just interested in stereotyping and creating scandel.
Very few non-aboriginal Australians ever encounter , yet alone work with or socialise with aboriginal people , so they have no first hand experience of them. (I have 2 sisters-in-law who have married local aboriginal men and have several nieces and nephews who are of aboriginal decent , so I regularly socialise with aboriginal people (but the ones here (in Newcastle) are pretty well off compared with the ones in remote communities).

My observation from first hand experience is that aboriginal people are no different and work just as hard (if they can get a job) and a no more or less interested in boozing , using drugs or other nasty activities than anyone else , and in some ways are much more admirable than whites , they are very community and family orientated , and have great respect for their elders and their community leaders and do not treat their elders like refuse when they are old.
I have also visited some remote aboriginal reserves and communities and found the people when I did to very nice despite having been treated badly by the system.

sonofspock1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6488

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 8:02 pm

Wasn't she just banned half an hour ago?

Bekky_

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 18

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 8:06 pm

Quote (Somerled_ex_Siistertrek @ Feb. 09 2010, 8:02 pm)
Quote (Bekky_ @ Feb. 08 2010, 9:51 pm)
Quote (Somerled_ex_Siistertrek @ Feb. 09 2010, 7:36 pm)
Well ,since the article given is well and truely dated (back in 1999) , there has been a decade of developments.

I'm an Australian and have no aboriginal decent .

Under Howard , aboriginal land was reannexed and made federal land .
Under Howard , many aboriginal settlements were allowed to become very run down to the point that many houses became uninhabitable hovels , and many aboriginal settlements now are so bad that they would not look out of place in a 3rd world nation.
Under Howard , the rights of aboriginals to live there lives without interference were taken away , the claim was that aboriginals (expecially the men) would buy drugs, booze, and pot and cigarettes, ?and pornography before buying food for their children , and they were engaging in pedophilia and assalting their women , so under pain of losing their benefits (many aboriginals live on aboriginal reserves in settlements where there is no work or prospects for employment and too far away from anywhere where their might be work (for unskilled labor), the Howard government decided to penalise the aboriginals (especially in the NT) taking their benefits off them if their kids failed to attend school (every day) , and they followed up by taking control of their money through Centrelink and keeping a big part of the money set aside that could only be used to pay for food and schooling.


Labor was in power in the 1970s only. Most of time since WWII , the conservatives were in power and the blame for the situation the aboriginals are in is there's.
As to the situation the aboriginals in WA, Qld, NT find themselves in ?having anything to do with effects of socialism .... the answer is no , not since the 1980s (as we had the Liberal/Nat coalition in charge federally for the entire 1990s and up til 2 years ago. So the blame lied squarely with Howard and his mob of concervatives who had over a decade to help the aboriginals and did nothing other than blame them for being victims of the system.

So Somerled_ex_Siistertrek; are you saying things are now worse for the Aboriginal people than it was when Yabu Bilyana made his speech?

Why has the Australian people allowed this to happen?

Yes , that would be an accurate assessment . As an Australian I think it's shameful.

The current labor government is working to improve things , but they have a huge task ahead of them and it is going to take time , plus they have to get every measure past the Senate which is controlled by the opposition who are hell bent on opposing everything, especially anything that undoes anything they instigated.

Somerled_ex_Siistertrek,

Do you favor doing away with capitalism all together in Australia and moving to a true socialist system like Yabu Bilyana?

Why did the Australian people allow their government to oppress these people for so long, and even know why did they vote in opposing parties so that these problems couldn¿t be fixed?

Did you read about the British Defense contractor that recently got a wrist slap for much corruption it was involved in?

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Report this Feb. 09 2010, 8:38 pm

I favour socialism mixed with a strongly regulated public sector.

I do not like USA style unregulated / uncontrolled capitalism , and would never approve of american style capitalism with it's rampant greed, it's lack of workers rights, it's privitised health and hospital system where profit takes precidence over health outcomes and legitimate health needs are denied to people who can not afford to pay making it's way here , which was Howards agenda and remains the agenda of his cronnies.

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Feb. 09 2010, 8:40 pm

Quote (sonofspock1 @ Feb. 08 2010, 10:02 pm)
Wasn't she just banned half an hour ago?

I think there are few others I've encountered who are more deservihg of being banned here.

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