ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

So was all of DS9 just the imagination

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Feb. 12 2010, 1:02 am

Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Feb. 11 2010, 11:18 pm)
Quote (OtakuJo @ Feb. 11 2010, 11:02 pm)
Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Feb. 11 2010, 10:58 pm)
Quote (OtakuJo @ Feb. 11 2010, 10:53 pm)
Quote (TheChronicOne @ Feb. 10 2010, 12:46 pm)
Here's a troll cookie for you: *

I wanna troll cookie too!

:cry:

You don't get one! You're an idiot! Why are you even posting in this forum?! You don't belong here. Go sit on your couch and watch Star Trek.

I am watchin' Star Trek!... So there. ?:p

And I'll get my own cookies and not give you any because you're a meany poo poo.

Fine, I won't let you have my cake!

LOL. ¿;)

Looks like you and I must've been writing messages at the same time.

Kdbtrekkin

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3648

Report this Feb. 14 2010, 4:33 am

Wow what a set of posts I just read threw. It was like Liar Liar pants on Fire.(surprisingly I didn't see a post saying that).

So to go on about the original question. It's all a Dream by this person. My Webpage :laugh:  :p  :D

ViperMan2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3232

Report this Feb. 14 2010, 9:30 am

Quote (Kdbtrekkin @ Feb. 14 2010, 4:33 am)
Wow what a set of posts I just read threw. It was like Liar Liar pants on Fire.(surprisingly I didn't see a post saying that).

So to go on about the original question. It's all a Dream by this person. My Webpage :laugh: ¿:p ¿:D

:laugh:

Ezri2

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9864

Report this Feb. 14 2010, 8:18 pm

Ah, Far Beyond the Stars. I watched that episode last night and all I could think about was how bad Kassidy's wig was haha. It did not match her hair colour at all. mhph.

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Feb. 14 2010, 8:34 pm

Ha. It's interesting the things we pick up on.

My only beef with the episode is Michael Dorn's wooden acting. (Maybe he felt naked without the Worf makeup?) For some reason, he just comes across so ... uncomfortable and ... well, kinda "white trying to act black."

*shrug*

However, I was insanely impressed with Avery Brooks, Armin Shimerman, Rene Auberjonois, and Cirroc Lofton. Wow, all of these actors really brought their "A" game.

Anyway, "Far Beyond the Stars" is far and away one of my favorite episodes in the series. On top of that, I firmly believe it's one of the finest episodes in any Trek series.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Feb. 17 2010, 9:07 pm

Only thing I don't like about it was that it was very "in-yer-face" about the whole race thing. I hate it when morals are presented so unsubtly. Brought down what might have been an otherwise great episode. What a shame.

Dorn's acting I did not have such a problem with, although I can see why it might be described as "wooden" in this case.

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Feb. 18 2010, 12:51 am

Quote (OtakuJo @ Feb. 18 2010, 12:07 am)
Only thing I don't like about it was that it was very "in-yer-face" about the whole race thing. I hate it when morals are presented so unsubtly.

Still, it's pretty tough to be subtle when four of your main cast members are black, including the show's lead.

Just curious...

What did you think of Sisko's comments to Kasidy in "Badda-Bing Badda-Bang?"

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Feb. 20 2010, 7:08 pm

Quote (TheDriver @ Feb. 18 2010, 12:51 am)
Quote (OtakuJo @ Feb. 18 2010, 12:07 am)
Only thing I don't like about it was that it was very "in-yer-face" about the whole race thing. I hate it when morals are presented so unsubtly.

Still, it's pretty tough to be subtle when four of your main cast members are black, including the show's lead.

Just curious...

What did you think of Sisko's comments to Kasidy in "Badda-Bing Badda-Bang?"

"I don't wanna go to Vic's because a bunch of people were mean to my people four hundred years ago." ?? -- that one?

I think that if I were Kassidy I would've slapped him about a bit and told him to get over himself and stop being such a bloody crybaby.

I guess another pertinent question is what would Kira have said?? I mean, she's come so far in just seven years with not quite forgetting the occupation of her people *which incidentally she lived through -- Sisko never lived through any occupation* -- and Sisko is still in a major (immature) huff after four hundred.

Seriously, comparing Kira and Sisko in that regard -- I don't think Sisko comes off as a dumb kid in the middle of a grump. Comparing Jake and Ben Sisko, Jake's more mature than his father. And seriously -- no-one did anything to Ben Sisko or his family. Kira's gripes are easily a thousand times more valid than his.
------------------------------------

I think there are other themes in "Far Beyond the Stars" that are explored better and more subtly than the racism angle, but it's the in your face moralism that prevents it from reaching the status of "fully awesome" and keeps it in the "only a bit awesome" category.

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Feb. 21 2010, 4:15 pm

Quote (OtakuJo @ Feb. 20 2010, 10:08 pm)
"I don't wanna go to Vic's because a bunch of people were mean to my people four hundred years ago." ?? -- that one?

I think that if I were Kassidy I would've slapped him about a bit and told him to get over himself and stop being such a bloody crybaby.

I guess another pertinent question is what would Kira have said?? I mean, she's come so far in just seven years with not quite forgetting the occupation of her people *which incidentally she lived through -- Sisko never lived through any occupation* -- and Sisko is still in a major (immature) huff after four hundred.

Seriously, comparing Kira and Sisko in that regard -- I don't think Sisko comes off as a dumb kid in the middle of a grump. Comparing Jake and Ben Sisko, Jake's more mature than his father. And seriously -- no-one did anything to Ben Sisko or his family. Kira's gripes are easily a thousand times more valid than his.

From the perspective of someone living in Dominion War-era Trek? I think you're right on the money, OJ.

However, the problem with science fiction is, while it explores themes that are universal, those very same themes are often harder to connect with than what's going on right outside your window.

In the case of "Far Beyond the Stars," the producers/writers acknowledged this by comparing its perfect potrayal of a man who happens to be black in charge of a Federation space station with that of a struggling black man in the 1950s. Why? Because we can all take a look at the comparison and go "Ah, I get it! Trek really is about a better tomorrow!"

So why the 1950s instead of the 1990s? Because if it hit too close to home, we might 'shut off' and say "Racism isn't prevalent in this day and age. We're way beyond that." And we'd be right ... as well as very, very wrong.

Thus, the writers used the 1950s to illustrate the "real" version of humanity for which to compare. And in the process, delivered a story about a writer (writers writing about writers is always fun) prognosticating about a brighter future for his race in spite of the hatred and prejudice he experienced all around him. And hey, he was a science fiction writer too, providing both a link to the Trek mythos and the idea that it was his job to look to the future.

And regardless of whether the theme beats us over the head (and I'd argue it only gave us a pleasant thumping), "Far Beyond the Stars" was beautifully constructed.

Now as for Kira's situation? Well, again, you're right. Kira's level of tolerance puts Sisko's TO SHAME. And in the context of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, yeah, it's a bit funny to think that the issues of racism would affect a Starfleet Captain hundreds of years later.

But again, in the context of viewers at home living in the 1990s and watching Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, it makes sense for Sisko's character to acknowledge the racial discrimination in Las Vegas during the 1960s.

Bajoran occupation = cool sci-fi storyline that's supposed to make us think.
1950s/1960s America = overt and relevant "lessons" from the better tomorrow that is Star Trek.

Kdbtrekkin

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3648

Report this Feb. 22 2010, 1:42 am

I really like the in your face stuff, it's like hey all you people, this is it, no questions asked, just bam, there. That and it makes is so even the stupidest person can understand. Sometimes that's needed, especially in this culture with everything fast and furious, if it isn't in your face, you might not even see it, and that is also not a good thing.

EmpokNorStationManager

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2034

Report this Feb. 23 2010, 5:49 am

Quote (Ezri2 @ Feb. 14 2010, 8:18 pm)
Ah, Far Beyond the Stars. I watched that episode last night and all I could think about was how bad Kassidy's wig was haha. It did not match her hair colour at all. mhph.

That's SOOO weird...  it's the first thing I noticed too!!!!  :laugh:  :D  :laugh:

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Feb. 24 2010, 11:49 pm

A few little points:

* I tend to prefer to look at fictional characters first of all from the perspective of real people reacting in real ways to their own particular context. Positioning them in terms of allegory is one of the faster ways to lose my interest in the story. I would want the reactions of people in Star Trek to be realistic from a twenty fourth (in-universe) more than a twentieth century perspective, although I see why this might not always be the case.

* First rule of storytelling: Show, Don't Tell. While, of course this cannot be always perfectly achieved -- and for obvious reasons I suppose, children's stories especially tend to opt for the former when it comes to moral lessons -- In Yer Face moralising does tend to stick out like a sore thumb (and more often than not, ends up being just as painful.) There are, of course, other issues explored far better in Far Beyond the Stars, and these are much more satisfying to see. The race stuff just makes me want to groan. Not because it's there, but because it's so obviously there.

MirrorRobotVicFontaine

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1018

Report this Mar. 01 2010, 2:44 am

Quote
So was all of DS9 just the imagination, of a crazy mental patient?


No, since for one thing, Benny wasn't crazy.

ViperMan2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3232

Report this Mar. 01 2010, 5:02 pm

I finally saw the episode yesterday. It was interesting, more or less. I can see how some would say that the racism plot was really right out in front.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum