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Why does DS9 make us like villains?

iBorg13

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POSTS: 1944

Report this Jan. 25 2011, 11:59 am

You cannot help but admire Dukat, Weyoun, Garak, Quark and even Winn. The actors that played them did an exceptional job and I would welcome any of them into any future Star Trek productions.

Elim.Garak

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 12:16 pm

I agree with the statements above. The great thing about DS9 was the almost Shakespearian quality it had. The villains were as well developed as the heroes (in some cases moreso), and each one had not only a specific agenda, but a particular way they viewed the universe and their place in it. It's where so much sci-fi falls flat, and where DS9 excelled.

Bashir: Assuming you're not a spy... Garak: Assuming... Bashir: ...then maybe you're an outcast. Garak: Or maybe I'm an outcast spy. Bashir: How could you be both? Garak: I never said I was either.

Pvtcdt

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Report this Jan. 25 2011, 10:04 pm

To teach the lesson of putting stories into the shoes of the other side before judging! I love the military likeness of DS9!

"I love a woman who can fight! Jadzia Dax was my favorite!"

TyrThunor

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Report this Feb. 06 2011, 9:32 pm

DS9 was all character driven. There was very little, new lifeforms/new techs, which meant there was nothing but good plot of characters.

My only complaint is that they sometimes went a little to far, making every race the same. I think they should of explored the concept of each race thinking very differently.
I liked the idea of the cardassians lacking empathy on a genetic level, lacking the ability to sense pain. Would of explained alot and at the same time would of made their values of the state much more justified.

TyrThunor

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Report this Feb. 06 2011, 9:32 pm

DS9 was all character driven. There was very little, new lifeforms/new techs, which meant there was nothing but good plot and characters. My only complaint is that they sometimes went a little to far, making every race the same. I think they should of explored the concept of each race thinking very differently. I liked the idea of the cardassians lacking empathy on a genetic level, lacking the ability to sense pain. Would of explained alot and at the same time would of made their values of the state much more justified.


 


Instead the cardassians are shown to be a little to human. 


Another thing I find they skim over certian aspects.


Quark had very little in morals and simply avoided being bad because it was expemsive. 


Odo nearly handed the federation to the domionion when he was in the link.


Garak did alot of bad things, very bad things, I think it's often forgotten. 

OtakuJo

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Report this Feb. 11 2011, 4:29 pm

I'd have to disagree with you there Tyr, I think that the different cultures on DS9 were all very distinctive. What they were (as we are) were individuals within their cultures, influenced by those identities -- but still very much themselves.

Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

mattiasborg

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Report this Feb. 16 2011, 2:31 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 24 2011, 4:58 am

I wouldn't say they were likable. I'd say compelling is the right word. DS9 had the most compelling bad guys BECAUSE they were stationary and could have villains return with regularity.

I think this is the key. Villains in the other series where left behind after they where defeeted. The best villain of all though, is the colective.

EleanorD

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Report this Feb. 21 2011, 6:02 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Feb. 04 2010, 12:37 pm

>DS9 was also much more about "shades of gray." That was basically the theme of the entire show. The "villians" were real poeple with real motivations and personalities.


 


Exactly.  DS9 still has the classic Star Trek optimism about the future, but instead of ignoring tough questions of morality, it confronts them.  Heros make mistakes, the best intentions produce unwanted results, and victory sometimes requires unethical behavior.  


DS9 understood that villains can have the same motivations as heros, which means it becomes harder to demonize them.  


In many ways it's a more equitable and optimistic view of the galaxy than the previous series.


So I will learn to live with it... Because I can live with it... I can live with it...

hicchan

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Report this Feb. 22 2011, 3:13 am

DS9 understood that villains can have the same motivations as heros, which means it becomes harder to demonize them



Yeeeees!! This is probably the reason that I loved DS9 so much. In fact, the more that I rewatched it, the more that I fell in love with it. There are days when it overtakes my love of TNG.


I personally loved Rom, at least after he became a prominent character, and Nog. OMG, was Nog a great character! The time when he tried to bribe Sisko to write him a recommendation to the Academy was so precious. It's one of the highlights of the series for me. ^-^

trekgurl54

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 1:20 pm

I have always wondered why they did not explore deeper into The Breen? I thought they were an interesting species. Their home world is frozen, and what do they look like under those encounter suits? I think the producers should have brought them into the light. They probably would have been an interesting advisery for Sisko & company. Oh well.

OtakuJo

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 9:54 pm

A future series might (Zero Sum Game aside).


But I will say that, as much as we might be naturally curious beings, with minds that will want to fill in blanks... Sometimes it is good to keep an adversary mysterious.


___________________________________


 


And another proposed reason why we may like villains:


Because they are kewl. Let's face it, villains are fun.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

iBorg13

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Report this Jun. 06 2011, 11:07 pm

Uh huh! Methinks for actors too... who wants to play Sisko when you can play Dukat? Villains also have some pretty boss quotes.

OtakuJo

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Report this Jun. 07 2011, 6:49 am

Quote: iBorg13 @ Jun. 06 2011, 11:07 pm

>

>Uh huh! Methinks for actors too... who wants to play Sisko when you can play Dukat? Villains also have some pretty boss quotes.

>


Make that: Who wants Sisko when you can have Hippocrates Noah?


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

nuttersuclan

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 12:08 am

Quote: Matthias Russell @ Jan. 25 2011, 11:11 am

>I was pleased when Wynn died. No one deserved it more.


 


Definite thumbs up from me!


My other half used to find it more than a little odd when I shouted 'Ooo, what a BITCH!' at the TV, following some back-stabbing act from the Kai.


DIE, DIE YOU OLD WITCH!

Mantaray

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Report this Jun. 08 2011, 7:14 am

Its called character development.

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