ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Why does DS9 make us like villains?

DeannaTRiker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 488

Report this Feb. 04 2010, 7:27 am

I used to hate Ferengis with passion! They had no redeeming qualities whatsoever! Then I saw Quark and he became, I think, my favorite character on DS9!

I started liking Cardassians as well!

FriendlyTrekker

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 220

Report this Feb. 04 2010, 11:43 am

They took the time to develop the characters, rather than making them one-note stereotypes.  Quark and Garak had redeeming qualities as well as their more shady ones.

Commander_Zelkar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7250

Report this Feb. 04 2010, 11:58 am

I can't help but like Dukat and Weyoun.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Feb. 04 2010, 12:17 pm

I think what DS9 did best was show us that not all aliens fit into the same stereotypes.

subytrek

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 39018

Report this Feb. 04 2010, 12:17 pm

Because all the characters on DS9, including the "villains" were well written and well acted and there was more depth to them than the usual villain who is a villain simply because he/she is a villain. For the most part, DS9 villains have a reasonable motive for being the "villain" and don't even see themselves as being bad. That's why we can like them.

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Feb. 04 2010, 12:37 pm

DS9 was also much more about "shades of gray." That was basically the theme of the entire show. The "villians" were real poeple with real motivations and personalities.

WorfsGonads

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1095

Report this Feb. 04 2010, 4:42 pm

I read somewhere once that that Armin and Ira Behr went out thier way to re-invent the Ferengi.   Armin and Max Grodenchick, Jeffery Combs and Aron Eisenberg all did sensational jobs with thier characters.
The writing for the bad guys was amazing.  Marc Alaimo and again the wonderfully versatile, Jeffery Combs pulledl of great performances.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Feb. 06 2010, 3:00 am

Well... For starters, Quark and Rom are not villains. Rogues, perhaps -- and not entirely squeaky clean. But to be honest some of the attitudes presented towards the Ferengi in TNG are downright racist.

Case in point: Riker in "Perfect Mate" knows nothing about the Ferengi that come aboard the Enterprise, but one of the first things he says is (paraphrasing) "Find them some quarters but not too close to mine."

One of the good things about DS9 I find -- although TNG is of course also a good show -- is that it is more about realistic portrayals of good and evil, in that every character has the potential for either.

wissa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4026

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 6:17 pm

the best villains are always ones you secretly like. I think too one of the great strengths of ds9 is to portray how close heros really are to being villains.

We welcome st.com refugees! click on the image

msalay47

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 39

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 10:11 pm

Quote: subytrek @ Feb. 04 2010, 12:17 pm

Because all the characters on DS9, including the "villains" were well written and well acted and there was more depth to them than the usual villain who is a villain simply because he/she is a villain. For the most part, DS9 villains have a reasonable motive for being the "villain" and don't even see themselves as being bad. That's why we can like them.

one of the bst things I liked about DS9 was the depth of all the characters, both good and bad. I truly enjoyed Gul Dukat, Garrik, even Weyoon (anything Combs does is good). Think the antagonists were very strong and we could identify with them, unlike the last movie or two...

msalay47

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 39

Report this Jan. 23 2011, 10:13 pm

Quote: WorfsGonads @ Feb. 04 2010, 4:42 pm

I read somewhere once that that Armin and Ira Behr went out thier way to re-invent the Ferengi.   Armin and Max Grodenchick, Jeffery Combs and Aron Eisenberg all did sensational jobs with thier characters.
The writing for the bad guys was amazing.  Marc Alaimo and again the wonderfully versatile, Jeffery Combs pulledl of great performances.
so true.

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 24 2011, 4:58 am

I wouldn't say they were likable. I'd say compelling is the right word. DS9 had the most compelling bad guys BECAUSE they were stationary and could have villains return with regularity.

dranzerlehnsherr

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14

Report this Jan. 25 2011, 9:00 am

I definitely think that a big part of why I have come out liking villains in DS9 is because they are so well thought out. I tend to side with villains anyway, but it is really easy here because a) we see so much of them! and b) they are pretty hilarious and not too villainous at times. Some of my favourite episodes involve Dukat and Weyoun because they just work so well together. I enjoy understanding them and seeing why they became who they became. It is fantastic.

I definitely think that any show which can let a person do that has to make them care about villains!

toranaprem

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 621

Report this Jan. 25 2011, 10:45 am

The DS9 villains are all incredible for pretty much all the reasons stated above. I genuinely liked Weyoun, I have incredibly naughty feelings about Dukat (why, oh, why is he so damn attractive?!) But what I love about DS9 is that I even love the villains I -don't- like as people. I hated Winn from the beginning, and I only felt a little bad for her at the end. But just...gah. What a fantastic villain, she was one of those villains I actually loved to hate. And seriously, I -hated- her. I physically tense up every time she comes on the screen. LOL.


"What will they find when I am ripped apart? 'I love you, captain' written on my heart."

Matthias Russell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 7705

Report this Jan. 25 2011, 11:11 am

I was pleased when Wynn died. No one deserved it more.

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum