Star Trek

> id="QUOTE">Obama primised to fix the entire country. ?Instead, he sits around blaming other people for its problems while his own policies make it far worse every day. ?That's not leadership.

Corwin88 GROUP: Members POSTS: 312

Report this Jan. 30 2010, 9:13 pm Quote (PhantomCrunk007 @ Jan. 30 2010, 9:06 pm) Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 30 2010, 3:07 am) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 6:04 pm) Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Jan. 30 2010, 5:02 pm) Quote (trekbuff @ Jan. 30 2010, 5:50 pm) Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Jan. 30 2010, 5:17 pm) It's because of the stupid enviromentalists. We could have our own oil, natural gas ect. if it weren't for them putting restrictions on that with the lobbyists in Washington. Wait I thought Obama said no more lobbyists in Washington? We could be out of the Middle East forever and not have to worry about foreign Oil anymore. Oil drilling is now safer than ever before. Those "stupid environmentalists" have probably saved your health many more times than you obviously know. "Oil, natural gas," coal - fossil fuels - are finite resources no matter where they come from. It is the lobbies of those industries which have held back investment in alternative, renewable sources of energy. Have you ever seen Who Killed the Electric Car?..? I don't believe nuclear power is the answer to our electricity needs. We need to be weaned off of Middle Eastern and South American oil. That should have begun in the 1970's when we were first held hostage by those countries. If the Earth wasn't meant for Man God wouldn't have put us here. The Earth's temp. has only risen a few degrees in the past 100 years. Did you see the hacked emails that showed the Global Warming Scientists say we have to fudge the numbers? What about Obama coming back from the Global Warming Conference in a Blizzard. Now Tennasee and Kentucky are having the worst snow storm they have seen in a long time. I just love it when people say things like "Oh but it's snowing" as a viable reasoning against global warming. It would be just like.. "well, I didn't die in my car today, no need to wear a seatbelt anymore!!" I never wear a seat belt. Stupid law, aside from little children having to wear them. Me not wearing a seatbelt poses no risk to anyone but me. To bad they dont make a law that says it's illegal to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger. Some good may come out of it because idiots like yanks could prove a point by not hurting anyone but themselves. Suicide is illegal. Insurance won't pay. it is against the law to end your own life. At the very least if you put a gun to your head you are discharging a firearm in city limits inside a dwelling or structure. Those are illegal as well. Enforcement is an issue, however. Back to Top

SLagonia GROUP: Members POSTS: 18170

Report this Jan. 30 2010, 10:51 pm > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SLagonia @ Jan. 30 2010, 12:12 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (caltrek @ Jan. 29 2010, 3:06 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (caltrek @ Jan. 29 2010, 3:23 pm) No, he didn't.  He listed specific problems. border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote

Again, Obama is not perfect, his policies could stand some improvement, but he is a breath of fresh air compared to Bush.

Take health care. Look at the problems it is linked to: the housing crisis. Homes are foreclosed upon because people encounter health problems that affect their ability to work to pay their mortgages. Efforts to expand affordable coverage to all segments of the population are being blocked at every turn. It is leadership to point out who is doing the blocking.

That's a pretty big stretch.  The vast majority of foreclosures have nothing to do with healthcare.

Also, when the status quo is far better than the repair, I don't give him credit for trying to fix it.

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SLagonia

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Report this Jan. 30 2010, 10:54 pm

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SLagonia

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Report this Jan. 30 2010, 10:59 pm

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SLagonia

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Report this Jan. 30 2010, 11:40 pm

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SLagonia

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Report this Jan. 31 2010, 12:25 am

Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 3:22 am)

Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:13 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:10 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:09 pm) Obama seems to have a difficult job fighting against the brainwashed mob. RL has crap for brains so brainwashing is a constant necessity. The problem is that people are getting used to listen to the one that manages to spread the most garbage against his or her opponent. So they stop listening to the one with something real to offer. 'Fraid so. Too bad, too.. some people would leap off a bridge if Rush Limpbrain told them to.

You realize that a great deal of his audience are independants and liberals, right?

He's an entertainer, not a brainwasher.

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SLagonia

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Report this Jan. 31 2010, 12:59 am

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Jan. 30 2010, 3:47 am)

Quote (SLagonia @ Jan. 30 2010, 9:25 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 3:22 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:13 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:10 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:09 pm) Obama seems to have a difficult job fighting against the brainwashed mob. RL has crap for brains so brainwashing is a constant necessity. The problem is that people are getting used to listen to the one that manages to spread the most garbage against his or her opponent. So they stop listening to the one with something real to offer. 'Fraid so. Too bad, too.. some people would leap off a bridge if Rush Limpbrain told them to. You realize that a great deal of his audience are independants and liberals, right? He's an entertainer, not a brainwasher. That what he has you trained to believe at any rate. ¿ ¿ I'll tell you like I told my cousins 22 year old son that came to my house on Christmas talking about how great Rush is and that Obama's a traitor and a socialist. IF you don't like or agree with what I believe that's your right, just don't say it in MY house.

Did it not occur to you that people like that simply gravitate toward him rather than being created by him?

I disagree with Rush constantly, but I still love listening to him.  Most of his audience is like that, actually.  Yeah, there's plenty of wackos, but you could say that about anything.  There's plenty of wackos who watch Star Trek too.

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SLagonia

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Report this Jan. 31 2010, 10:43 am

Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:22 pm)

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Jan. 31 2010, 12:47 am) Quote (SLagonia @ Jan. 30 2010, 9:25 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 3:22 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:13 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:10 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:09 pm) Obama seems to have a difficult job fighting against the brainwashed mob. RL has crap for brains so brainwashing is a constant necessity. The problem is that people are getting used to listen to the one that manages to spread the most garbage against his or her opponent. So they stop listening to the one with something real to offer. 'Fraid so. Too bad, too.. some people would leap off a bridge if Rush Limpbrain told them to. You realize that a great deal of his audience are independants and liberals, right? He's an entertainer, not a brainwasher. That what he has you trained to believe at any rate. ? ? I'll tell you like I told my cousins 22 year old son that came to my house on Christmas talking about how great Rush is and that Obama's a traitor and a socialist. IF you don't like or agree with what I believe that's your right, just don't say it in MY house. Well.... Obama IS a socialist...

He's really not a Socialist.  He's really a Statist.  There's a difference.

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TrekFan1701E

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Report this Jan. 31 2010, 10:47 am

Quote (SLagonia @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:43 am)

Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:22 pm) Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Jan. 31 2010, 12:47 am) Quote (SLagonia @ Jan. 30 2010, 9:25 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 3:22 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:13 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:10 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:09 pm) Obama seems to have a difficult job fighting against the brainwashed mob. RL has crap for brains so brainwashing is a constant necessity. The problem is that people are getting used to listen to the one that manages to spread the most garbage against his or her opponent. So they stop listening to the one with something real to offer. 'Fraid so. Too bad, too.. some people would leap off a bridge if Rush Limpbrain told them to. You realize that a great deal of his audience are independants and liberals, right? He's an entertainer, not a brainwasher. That what he has you trained to believe at any rate. ? ? I'll tell you like I told my cousins 22 year old son that came to my house on Christmas talking about how great Rush is and that Obama's a traitor and a socialist. IF you don't like or agree with what I believe that's your right, just don't say it in MY house. Well.... Obama IS a socialist... He's really not a Socialist. ¿He's really a Statist. ¿There's a difference.

And he is a narcissist.

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caltrek

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Report this Jan. 31 2010, 10:50 am

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SLagonia

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Report this Jan. 31 2010, 12:18 pm

Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 2:47 pm)

Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Jan. 31 2010, 9:47 am) Quote (SLagonia @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:43 am) Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:22 pm) Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Jan. 31 2010, 12:47 am) Quote (SLagonia @ Jan. 30 2010, 9:25 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 3:22 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:13 pm) Quote (TheChronicOne @ Jan. 30 2010, 1:10 am) Quote (KING_B @ Jan. 30 2010, 11:09 pm) Obama seems to have a difficult job fighting against the brainwashed mob. RL has crap for brains so brainwashing is a constant necessity. The problem is that people are getting used to listen to the one that manages to spread the most garbage against his or her opponent. So they stop listening to the one with something real to offer. 'Fraid so. Too bad, too.. some people would leap off a bridge if Rush Limpbrain told them to. You realize that a great deal of his audience are independants and liberals, right? He's an entertainer, not a brainwasher. That what he has you trained to believe at any rate. ? ? I'll tell you like I told my cousins 22 year old son that came to my house on Christmas talking about how great Rush is and that Obama's a traitor and a socialist. IF you don't like or agree with what I believe that's your right, just don't say it in MY house. Well.... Obama IS a socialist... He's really not a Socialist. ?He's really a Statist. ?There's a difference. And he is a narcissist. And he's a chocolate chip cookie.

Based on the amount of times he's said "Bite me" to the American people, I'd say that's a pretty good metaphor.

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PhantomCrunk007

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Report this Feb. 01 2010, 6:58 am

Quote (trekbuff @ Jan. 31 2010, 12:18 am)

Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) I understand where you are coming from, but there is another side too tb. It WAS costing the company 80 bucks an hour to employ you. That's what Rush is saying. Same for the military. They include benifits, housing etc when they figure out how much they pay us. I know my paycheck is WAY below that too. No, Yanks. It was NOT costing GM $80.00 an hour to employee me. You have bought into that propaganda hook, line and sinker. When my hourly rate as a trained skilled tradesman was $29.92, my COLA was $0.67 and the value of benefits including Social Security and HI was $18.71 when divided up by the hours I worked. The total was $49.30 per hour, NOT $80.00 as Rush, GM and the other liars would have you believe. Now, if you want to add in my projected retirement benefits for a year, if you divide what I was supposed to get by 2000 (hours) and add that to the $49.30, you may get $80.00. But since I retired, I've lost my dental and vision benefits, my deduction from my retirement check has doubled, my co-pays and prescriptions have gone up by six times, my BC&BS supplement is gone and the retirement trust is underfunded. Let's look at the guy working for $20.00 an hour who thinks I'm making $80.00 dollars an hour and has a fit. Does he realize his employer is paying much more than the $20.00 an hour he sees in his paycheck? Let's say it's $12.00 more an hour that he doesn't see. That brings his cost to $32.00 an hour. But, because he doesn't pay nearly as much income taxes as I do - if he pays any, the percentage of his pay that he gets to take home is much higher than what I get. I get to take home, maybe, 62% of that $30.59 an hour or about $18.97. The guy getting $20.00 an hour can be taking home as much as $18.47 of it in his pay check after Social Security and Medicare taxes. So, I should be crusified because I got to take home 50 cents more an hour?!!! By the way, that union job that used to be $29.00 an hour? It is now $14.50 an hour. This was agreed upon in the 2007 contract BEFORE the UAW was told by the government to reopen the contract and cut my retirement benefits. Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) My back is bad and I've hit my head so many times on dangling unsafe objects in ship's passageways that on a couple occassions I actually had to sit down for a few so I didn't pass out. Does good ole Uncle Sam do anything different? - No they build ships the same now that they have for decades. The technology improved, not general safety. Duck! Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) Now the repetative work and uncomfortable conditions you worked in was obviously OK with the unions, they are there FOR YOU, right? That's why we fought for wages, a 40 hour work week and medical benefits. Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) Yeah, they ask you where their political donations (your dues) go... I don't always like how those dues are spent. I do know I wouldn't have what I do now if it weren't for the UAW... Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) Now men get baby leave, etc, etc, etc and the "boss" has to eat all that. Don't even get me started on what women emplyees get. What does the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 have to do with unions? It was a law passed by Congress and signed by the President. It was NOT part of a union contract. Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) Ford Motor company was the last to unionize. Mr Ford went a little whacko in his later years, but he was the one that DOUBLED wages for his workers, without any "union help". Ford was strong armed to unionize and the rest is history. Why do you suppose Mr. Ford appeared to be so generous, Yanks? What good are "DOUBLED wages" if your boss can fire you due to no fault of your own? What good are "DOUBLED wages" if you get injured or killed because of unsafe working conditions and there are others eager to take your place and you can't feed your kids or your widow is left cold? There is much more involved than wages. Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) BTW, I will not purchase a new GM product as long as uncle sam is the majority stock holder. I'm a Ford man now. The monies GM received were LOANS. They were nothing like the freebie bail out monies given to the financial institutions who got us into the current mess. The media, members of Congress and others calling the monies GM received a bail out is incorrect and a perfect example of the propaganda you and others have bought into. The government owning GM is no different than the bank owning your house until the mortgage is paid off. Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) The unions and politicians that are influenced by them continue to place unfair and unreasonable mandates on employers. Put yourself in their place, why go out of your way to do the right thing when your ememies will pass laws mandating you do everything under the sun anyway? Oh that's right, then it's alway popular to "tax the rich", those that provide. Again, you have mixed two topics to make some point which alludes me. Unreasonable mandates on employers? Are you back to the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993? That benefits many more people than union members. Other labor laws may have come about partially due to unions, but they benefit everyone. Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) Unions had their time, but it has passed. Ya know, you keep saying this. Look what has happened to this country and the general world economy over the last 40 years or so as union manufacturing jobs have been outsourced to countries where there are no labor or environmental laws. Don't tell me those jobs were outsourced because union workers cost too much. Did the prices for products go down when labor and manufacturing costs were drastically cut? Nope. As union member numbers have decreased, so have wages and benefits for everyone. What used to be the good life for a middle class family of four on one paycheck now takes two paychecks just to pay the bills. If people want anything they use charge cards. Unemployment is at 10% because of how little we make here and the money supply has dwindled because of buying foreign made products. Quote (Yanks @ Jan. 31 2010, 10:19 am) Look at Whole Foods effort to take care of their employees. You can google it, but he purchases catastrophic insurance, and puts 2-3K in a saving account (every year) managed by the EMPLOYEE. The employee's love it. I saw this on Stossell. They interviewed a mother of 4 and she loves it! This empowers the manager of those funds to shop around and not be wastefull. Now if they were unionized, be sure they would be some mandate that everyone have insurance that covers everything....pills, add-a-dick-to-me procedures, cosmetic surgury, etc. That's wastefull, and would cause me to be hands off with regard to my employees health care. Stay out of my nickers and I'll go out of my way to help and keep my employees happy. In the event that the plan I offer my employee isn't cutting it, maybe because of a unique case, I'll step in and help. Under Pres Bush, the government civilian pay process was changed to a performanced based program. I had the "pleasure" of sitting on the panel that determined pay raises and no pay raises based on their performance. While an administrative burden, the result was very pleasing to me (the boss) and the emplyees. Good hard working folks were getting rewarded either by an increase in salary or a bonus. The dead meat was just retaining what they already had. Attitudes and performance CHANGED in the govie world. That hadn't happened in 50 years. The evaluation system was one of pass/fail and no one short of a murderer could ever fail. Bush's system could actually remove someone that needed to go. But now, the good ole Dem's (Obama) are back in charge so we are going back to rewarding dead meat. Just thought I'd throw that in there. Here's the article on the Whole Foods health care plan. Whole Food's CEO I'm not saying that all employer's are angels, but you can't say the the union bosses are angel either. While this has nothing to do with unions, I read the article you linked to. I agree with most of what John Mackey had to say. I also noted it was not "2-3K" that was put into [/i]Personal Wellness Accounts[/i], it is $1,800.00 per year. Their annual deductable is "about $2,500." I am NOT for the current, pork filled health care bill and have said so several times on these boards. The plan is to tax those that actually have something left, tax what ever medical benefits we have as imputed income, cut Medicare and force folks without insurance to purchase government formulated medical insurance. Government employees have G.S. ratings. Their salary is based on their rating. If they do a good job, they move up within ratings or to the next rating. I guarantee there are still "dead meat" employees getting advancement or bonuses simply because their boss likes them while there are others doing above and beyond not getting advancement or bonuses simply because their boss does not like them. That's real life in almost any job, and you know it. Union workers (at least at GM) have a set pay for a given job title/function. There is no chance of earning a higher wage or getting a promotion. GM and the UAW worked out a profit sharing bonus deal. When GM made $2 billion one year we received a $400.00 PSB. The next year GM made $4.7 billion. We were told blah, blah, blah and that because of blah, blah, blah, we would only receive $50.00. That was our last PSB - somewhere around 1999. The union has made dozens of concessions over the last 25 years or so. Wages did not increase as sales and profits went up until around 2002 and work was outsourced. Employment decreased as automation increased. When I hired on at GM my plant had 5,800 employees. When I retired in 2006 there were 1,650 employees while actually building more product. When I hired on in 1973 I got $5.00 an hour and a pickup truck was $2,800.00. When I retired that same job paid $28.00 an hour and a comparable pickup truck was stickered at $28,000.00 - 6 times the wages yet 10 times the price for a pickup truck. Just as there are those who would follow self proclaimed political pundit instructions to jump a cliff, there are folks who don't know or understand what insurance to purchase. Many folks are ignorant and some are just plain stupid. I wish there would have been a class, a mandatory class, when I was in high school to teach kids not to count on anyone, their company or the government, for their future. Not the b.s. Economics class I'm sure most of us were required to take, but a life financial class. I wish I would have saved at least 10% of every dollar I've ever earned. What I learned was to count on Social Security and my retirement benefits from General Motors. My Union should have had annual classes required by their members telling us to save and about the uncertainties of the future - that what is golden now could easily turn to dust. Well, it ain't exactly dust, but it sure ain't gold. Don't tell me, "Unions had their time, but it has passed." Without unions there would have been none of the benefits everyone else has shared. As unions have lost ground due to the actions of both Democrats (NAFTA signed by Clinton) and Republicans, there has been a flushing sound since about 1973. We almost heard the final gurgle in the fall of 2008. Don't blame the Unions and their members for hanging on to the edge of the bowl. With the loss of union jobs and fair wages, competition for available jobs, buying so much produced by virtual slave labor in China and other such countries and folks believing Wal-Mart is doing them a favor, I've seen what has happened and so have you.

^5

Teamsters Local 166, 12 years.

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