Star Trek

LtCmdrHanson GROUP: Members POSTS: 2606	Report this Jan. 25 2010, 10:30 pm Hi all, Since I've seen numerous vs. threads on here, I've not seen one like this.. Using the first three movies, and any other material out at that time, compare/contrast it to TOS and the TOS era movies along w/any material out at that time. Basically it's - The Original SW trilogy w/ whatever other material                    TOS & TOS era movies w/whatever other material (So, no Clone Wars stuff gets reconned into the SW material..) Back to Top
tribblenator999 GROUP: Members POSTS: 3818	Report this Jan. 25 2010, 11:08 pm okay if you use on-screen material solely then star trek beats out star wars by a long shot. If you use all the other crap that george lucas studios put into star wars later than it's unfair for star trek because star trek does not count anything other than on screen stuff as canon while star wars counts everything as canon. glad you see the case here so I'll go by on screen stuff only. weapons-trek.  wars weaponry seem to be really close range, trek weapons are accurate up to 300,000 km. speed- solo's falcon the fastest ship in star wars can go .5 past light speed. dude warp 1 would be faster than that. again trek wins. defense- star wars shields seem to be easily penetrated since all you have to do is blow out the generators in plain sight. Trek shields generators are internal and are very flexible with modulations. Trek wins. sensors- trek. size- wars but size means nothing if your opponent is something you can't hit. characters- trek=less annoying. trek wins. So trek is the victor. Back to Top
chr3335 GROUP: Members POSTS: 7914	Report this Jan. 25 2010, 11:40 pm Quote (tribblenator999 @ Jan. 25 2010, 12:08 am) okay if you use on-screen material solely then star trek beats out star wars by a long shot. If you use all the other crap that george lucas studios put into star wars later than it's unfair for star trek because star trek does not count anything other than on screen stuff as canon while star wars counts everything as canon. glad you see the case here so I'll go by on screen stuff only. weapons-trek. ¿wars weaponry seem to be really close range, trek weapons are accurate up to 300,000 km. speed- solo's falcon the fastest ship in star wars can go .5 past light speed. dude warp 1 would be faster than that. again trek wins. defense- star wars shields seem to be easily penetrated since all you have to do is blow out the generators in plain sight. Trek shields generators are internal and are very flexible with modulations. Trek wins. sensors- trek. size- wars but size means nothing if your opponent is something you can't hit. characters- trek=less annoying. trek wins. So trek is the victor. Quote defense- star wars shields seem to be easily penetrated since all you have to do is blow out the generators in plain sight. Trek shields generators are internal and are very flexible with modulations. Trek wins.  Those globe things are not shield generators they are communication towers this is according to one of the designers of the movie.  The shield generating thing is a mistake made by the designers of the Starwars table top RPG. Try again. Quote size- wars but size means nothing if your opponent is something you can't hit.  Based on the footage in the movie the Death star turrents were almost hitting the small (12m long) fighter craft.  There will be no trouble hitting the far larger and far less maneuverable trek craft. if the ship could only go 1.5c then it would take them YEARS to get anywhere.  Since it clearly does not (only a few hours at most) the speed is much faster than any warp vessel. Back to Top
chr3335 GROUP: Members POSTS: 7914	Report this Jan. 26 2010, 7:34 am Quote (marshall8472 @ Jan. 25 2010, 4:02 am) Quote Many (but not all) impulse battles occur at severely short ranges. ? We have seen weapons used at impulse to have profound ranges ("The Wounded"[TNG4], "Return to Grace"[DS9-4], "The Search"[DS9-3], etc.), in the area of 100,000-250,000 kilometers. However, weapons limited to lightspeed would take a third of a second to cross a 100,000km distance, so maneuverable Trek targets engaging in evasive maneuvers could evade (especially given that phasers do not move at lightspeed, canonically). "Elaan of Troyius"[TOS3] shows the Klingons firing at about 80,000 kilometers. At warp, torpedo ranges are at least 5 million kilometers ("Human Error"[VOY7], with similar range shown in "Flashback"[VOY3]). Phaser maximum range at warp is unknown. Maximum Range: ~200,000 km (STL only), Effective Maximum Range: 10-200,000km (variable). Don't forget to thank me for giving you specific examples since I'm still waiting on your example of a 200 gigaton firepower of the star wars cannon's Quote Based on the footage in the movie the Death star turrents were almost hitting the small (12m long) fighter craft. ?There will be no trouble hitting the far larger and far less maneuverable trek craft. Yeah that's another thing, 95+% of every attempt to hit a fighter is a miss from those torrents. ?That's just ridiculous. ?Where's the great empire technology that's supposed to crush trek? ?It sure ain't there. ? if the ship could only go 1.5c then it would take them YEARS to get anywhere. ?Since it clearly does not (only a few hours at most) the speed is much faster than any warp vessel. Hans said something along the lines of "She'll make point five past lightspeed". ?What else could he have meant by that? ?Although he also said it made the kessle run in less than 12 parsecs where a parsec is a measure of distance not time. ?It's not fair that you can pick and choose misinformation though. ?If you're willing to admit that there are things said in star wars that are incorrect and underestimates then you're going to have to bend the other way and admit that there are things said in star wars that are incorrect and overestimates.

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Many (but not all) impulse battles occur at severely short ranges. ¿ We have seen weapons used at impulse to have profound ranges ("The Wounded"[TNG4], "Return to Grace"[DS9-4], "The Search"[DS9-3], etc.), in the area of 100,000-250,000 kilometers. However, weapons limited to lightspeed would take a third of a second to cross a 100,000km distance, so maneuverable Trek targets engaging in evasive maneuvers could evade (especially given that phasers do not move at lightspeed, canonically). "Elaan of Troyius"[TOS3] shows the Klingons firing at about 80,000 kilometers. At warp, torpedo ranges are at least 5 million kilometers ("Human Error"[VOY7], with similar range shown in "Flashback"[VOY3]). Phaser maximum range at warp is unknown. Maximum Range: ~200,000 km (STL only), Effective Maximum Range: 10-200,000km (variable).

¿I call BS on these large ranges given the fact RAMMING IS STILL AN EFFECTIVE TACTIC. ¿If they ranges are as far as you say then ramming would be impossible not to mention we never SEE combat at that range in the tv show or movies they are all within visual range.

¿A blind spot says nothing about sensor capabilities. ¿As for the cave the went in all the way to the back and it was also the belly of a giant space monster. ¿In star trek tubes in ds9 made out of duranimum are impervious to sensors and duranium is a naturally occuring metal on Bajor. ¿Hell trek sensors are blocked by what ever random plot devise of the week. ¿War sensors have been around for 25,000 years minimum(about as long as the Galactic Republic existed) so most of those bugs have been worked out.

¿Out of the 3 squadrons of fighters that left to fight the Death Star only 3 individual fighters came back besides we have trek ships missing far larger targets as far slower speeds My Webpage ¿It is too bad the Trek miss videos are gone from YOU tube.

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I remember the falcon was able to hide on the side of an enemy ship and they weren't detected. ¿I can't think of any episode of star trek where they were able to attach themselves to an enemy ship and no one would see them. ¿The empire should have known they were there too. ¿One minute the falcon is flying at them and the next they just "disappear". ¿They also hid in a "cave" where empire sensors couldn't find them apparently. ¿If star wars sensors were so great then the falcon sensors should have shown that wasn't a cave too by the way. ¿This should show that the empire sensors are rather worthless and that the crew are just stupid. ¿I wouldn't be too quick to give them credit for anything.

> id="QUOTE">Out of the 3 squadrons of fighters that left to fight the Death Star only 3 individual fighters came back besides we have trek ships missing far larger targets as far slower speeds My Webpage ?It is too bad the Trek miss videos are gone from YOU tube.

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Hans said something along the lines of "She'll make point five past lightspeed". ¿What else could he have meant by that? ¿Although he also said it made the kessle run in less than 12 parsecs where a parsec is a measure of distance not time. ¿It's not fair that you can pick and choose misinformation though. ¿If you're willing to admit that there are things said in star wars that are incorrect and underestimates then you're going to have to bend the other way and admit that there are things said in star wars that are incorrect and overestimates. ¿Well seeing as it would have taken them YEARS to get any where he obviously couldn't have meant literally 1.5c light speed and hyperspace a probably synonymous terms besides based on the Novelization of ROTJ it clearly states the rebel fleet was "hundreds" of light years away. ¿This gives us a minimum of 200 light years of which they made the trip in the time it took for Vader to take Luke from Endor to the death star Back to Top
chr3335 GROUP: Members POSTS: 7914	Report this Jan. 26 2010, 9:40 am > id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote> id="QUOTE">They calculated the minimum power required to vaporize the asteroid in TESB and scaled it up. border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (marshall8472 @ Jan. 25 2010, 9:14 am) those were some pretty small rocks, nope that's not 200 gigatons of firepower border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote

Why weren't they able to get them all? ¿The number of cannon's outnumbered the ships yet they all missed.

border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">not sure this makes sense.  Are you trying to say ramming is effective for star wars vessels but it's impossible for them to do it with star trek's superior weapon's range?  No I am saying trek superior range is a myth given the fact that ramming is still an effective tactic.

border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">Why weren't they able to get them all?  The number of cannon's outnumbered the ships yet they all missed.  It is called "evasive maneuvers" you do realize that enemy pilots don't like to get hit or do you think that the enemy should stay in one place so they can be hit

border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote > id="QUOTE">I'm not interested in hearing why you think hans was mistaken about the 1.5 light years figure.  I already said they probably got the number wrong just like they got the other numbers wrong like being able to travel across the galaxy in a few hours.  Except if the trip was going to be more than hours than Han would have said a day as part of his estimated time of arrival.  Besides in ROTJ the rebel fleet cross a minimum distance of 200 light years in at most an hour or 2 that is far faster than we see trek