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What was more revolutionary?

Vger23

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Report this Jan. 26 2010, 8:43 am

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Jan. 26 2010, 6:10 am)
And sorry...just to add one more thing...I fully expected The Matrix to have had a greater impact on the film world than it has. The first time I saw The Matrix, I truly felt like I was seeing something completely brand new (I wasn't familiar with wushu films back then) and I was excited to see where the technology was taken next. Unfortunately it seems to be rather specific with the kind of tales it can be used for, and hasn't been utilised on as big a scale as I was expecting.

But "The Matrix" was derivitive of "Bladerunner," so I don't know if you can put it in that category.

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jan. 26 2010, 8:58 am

Quote (Vger23 @ Jan. 25 2010, 2:43 pm)
But "The Matrix" was derivitive of "Bladerunner," so I don't know if you can put it in that category.

How was it derivative of Blade Runner? We're talking about the technology here, not the story or the overall visual look.

I was specifically meaning all the wire work and the bullet time effects...I thought they'd have been used more.

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jan. 26 2010, 9:01 am

Ooh, and sorry to maybe go a little bit off topic, but I just have to add that the film that still impresses me the most for effects (and is one of my all time favourite films) is John Carpenter's The Thing.

Rob Bottin is a genius...I just wish there was still call for guys like him in Hollywood.

captbates

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Report this Jan. 26 2010, 4:49 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 25 2010, 2:39 pm)
Quote (wellthatwasawaste @ Jan. 25 2010, 7:00 pm)
I am a tech nerd when it comes to scifi so wanted to get some opinions on this.

TOS used optical effects and models on strings.
Star Wars pretty much introduced Motion Control tech.
Avatar is the apex of all current digital effects tech and 3D filming tech.

Just want your opinions on which has had the most important contribution to scifi tv/film. Realizing this is a very broad question I respect all input. Could be a very interseting converstation. Thanks for all positive input.

Um, the models in TOS weren't on strings...



Turn in your nerd card, son...

:logical:

Cool pic SB, I take it that's a shot taken directly from Space Seed? I've never seen these before and didn't know the models were filmed on stands.

captbates

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Report this Jan. 26 2010, 4:59 pm

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Jan. 25 2010, 3:37 pm)
Quote (wellthatwasawaste @ Jan. 25 2010, 4:00 pm)
I am a tech nerd when it comes to scifi so wanted to get some opinions on this.

TOS used optical effects and models on strings.
Star Wars pretty much introduced Motion Control tech.
Avatar is the apex of all current digital effects tech and 3D filming tech.

Just want your opinions on which has had the most important contribution to scifi tv/film. Realizing this is a very broad question I respect all input. Could be a very interseting converstation. Thanks for all positive input.

Well to be fair Star Trek used the blue screens to a very noticable aspect.

Star Wars actually did NOT have motion control it was used in the Empire Strikes Back. Star Wars did a lot in terms of perfecting blue screen shots although when one watches SW the un restored version does look crappy by todays standards.

Avater is not the apex of CGI, sure they used it very well yet it's just the extensive use is all it should get credit for. The matrix trilogy was more revolutionary.

That's not correct BAX, here's a quote from Wiki

Quote
Early attempts at motion control came about when John Whitney pioneered several motion techniques using old anti-aircraft analog computers (Kerrison Predictor) connected to servos to control the motion of lights and lit targets. The 1968 film 2001: A Space Odyssey pioneered motion control in two respects. The film's model photography was conducted with large mechanical rigs that enabled precise and repeatable camera and model motion. The film's finale was created with mechanically-controlled slit-scan photography, which required precise camera motion control during the exposure of single frames. The first large-scale application of motion control was in Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope (1977), where a digitally-controlled camera known as the Dykstraflex performed complex and repeatable motions around stationary spaceship models. This enabled a greater complexity in the spaceship-battle sequences, as separately filmed elements (spaceships, backgrounds, etc.) could be better coordinated with one another with greatly reduced error.


I do agree with you about the original prints, Lucas showed how he erased all of the problems with overlapping etc when the movies were re-mastered. I wonder how many fans haven't even seen the trilogy in it's original format.

Avatar isn't as much about CGI as it is stereoscopic 3D, that's where the Avatar revolution lies.

JM1ICEMAN

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Report this Jan. 26 2010, 6:13 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 26 2010, 9:39 am)
Quote (wellthatwasawaste @ Jan. 25 2010, 7:00 pm)
I am a tech nerd when it comes to scifi so wanted to get some opinions on this.

TOS used optical effects and models on strings.
Star Wars pretty much introduced Motion Control tech.
Avatar is the apex of all current digital effects tech and 3D filming tech.

Just want your opinions on which has had the most important contribution to scifi tv/film. Realizing this is a very broad question I respect all input. Could be a very interseting converstation. Thanks for all positive input.

Um, the models in TOS weren't on strings...



Turn in your nerd card, son...

:logical:

To be fair SB, not all the models from the original series were filmed on a support arm, they some times did use wires to hang a model for a certain view.

Below is a link to a tresure trove of great behind the scenes images from the original series, browes thru them and you'll see they used both wires and support arms for many of the same models:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdofthegalaxy/with/3783198669/

LinkDirect Linkage

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 27 2010, 11:46 am

I would definitely have to say Star Wars. It revolutionized everything. It created ILM, which has been used for almost all major special effects to date. Does anyone have the original trilogy on DVD? There's an extra that talks about how much they did to create Star Wars effects wise and how much of an impact that has had on the movie industry. Avatar was amazing itself, but really all it did was tie together everything that was already known and show just how much you can do with this technology. But, Star Wars started it.

captbates

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Report this Jan. 28 2010, 2:05 pm

Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Jan. 26 2010, 4:46 pm)
I would definitely have to say Star Wars. It revolutionized everything. It created ILM, which has been used for almost all major special effects to date. Does anyone have the original trilogy on DVD? There's an extra that talks about how much they did to create Star Wars effects wise and how much of an impact that has had on the movie industry. Avatar was amazing itself, but really all it did was tie together everything that was already known and show just how much you can do with this technology. But, Star Wars started it.

If you take Lucas's ILM into account then SW is a clear winner, but I'm not so sure the creation of ILM should be used as a factor in this poll.
ILM has revolutionised the movie industry setting new standards in sound and vision, even in "home cinema" THX and THX II are the pinnacle set by Lucas, but is the creation of ILM down to "Star Wars" or Lucas? Maybe you can't have one without the other.

captbates

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Report this Jan. 28 2010, 2:08 pm

Thanks SB.
I never knew about this display, very cool. I've had a look around and found some more pics. ¿:)

JM1ICEMAN

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Report this Feb. 01 2010, 7:01 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 27 2010, 11:37 am)
Quote (JM1ICEMAN @ Jan. 26 2010, 6:13 pm)
Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 26 2010, 9:39 am)
Quote (wellthatwasawaste @ Jan. 25 2010, 7:00 pm)
I am a tech nerd when it comes to scifi so wanted to get some opinions on this.

TOS used optical effects and models on strings.
Star Wars pretty much introduced Motion Control tech.
Avatar is the apex of all current digital effects tech and 3D filming tech.

Just want your opinions on which has had the most important contribution to scifi tv/film. Realizing this is a very broad question I respect all input. Could be a very interseting converstation. Thanks for all positive input.

Um, the models in TOS weren't on strings...



Turn in your nerd card, son...

:logical:

To be fair SB, not all the models from the original series were filmed on a support arm, they some times did use wires to hang a model for a certain view.

Below is a link to a tresure trove of great behind the scenes images from the original series, browes thru them and you'll see they used both wires and support arms for many of the same models:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdofthegalaxy/with/3783198669/

LinkDirect Linkage

I think whatawaste's implication was that all the model shots in TOS were done like something out of a Gerry Anderson show or a cheap 50's low-budget sci fi flick.

But thanks for the other shots...very cool!

:logical:

You know me...I'm highly into the special effects scene and it's history (which really started from the very beginning of film making), not just the recent cutting edge stuff.

All of it has it's place and will continue to evolve.

Hey, and some of Gerry Anderson's stuff was great and has it's place!

wellthatwasawaste

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Report this Feb. 07 2010, 1:16 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 26 2010, 9:39 am)
Quote (wellthatwasawaste @ Jan. 25 2010, 7:00 pm)
I am a tech nerd when it comes to scifi so wanted to get some opinions on this.

TOS used optical effects and models on strings.
Star Wars pretty much introduced Motion Control tech.
Avatar is the apex of all current digital effects tech and 3D filming tech.

Just want your opinions on which has had the most important contribution to scifi tv/film. Realizing this is a very broad question I respect all input. Could be a very interseting converstation. Thanks for all positive input.

Um, the models in TOS weren't on strings...



Turn in your nerd card, son...

:logical:

Umm. my nerd card may be out of date but I specifically remember documentaries on the making of TOS where the models were shot hanging on strings upside down...who's got my back?

wellthatwasawaste

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Report this Feb. 07 2010, 1:19 pm

By the way, The Matrix was the best Sci Fi concept since Star Wars IMHO. It was revolutionalry because of the plot and the sweet fighting. Just a shout out.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Feb. 07 2010, 10:00 pm

Quote (wellthatwasawaste @ Feb. 07 2010, 1:19 pm)
By the way, The Matrix was the best Sci Fi concept since Star Wars IMHO. It was revolutionalry because of the plot and the sweet fighting. Just a shout out.

Indeed. It's quite hard nowadays for anyone to come up with an original idea. That one was definitely groundbreaking.

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