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Evolution? Creation?

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:05 am

So, what do you think?

Evolution? Creation? Creation through Evolution?

Give us your opinions, reasonings, proof, etc.

:D

VulcanKat

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POSTS: 715

Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:13 am

Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:05 am)
So, what do you think?

Evolution? Creation? Creation through Evolution?

Give us your opinions, reasonings, proof, etc.

:D

Tell me when America has become more moderate...

ViperMan2000

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POSTS: 3232

Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:33 am

I'm not looking to start an argument or anything. I'm just looking for people to express their ideas and discuss them. :D

IVHoltzman

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 12:06 pm

Reminds me of a conversation from a few years ago...

. . "My people don't see any point in separating the Creator from the Creation," said Lai. "If, as you were picturing earlier, the universe does have a master guiding intelligence, we've never seriously believed it pays attention to matters as small as we. When was the last time you paid attention to one particular cell in back of your left knee? Or the fifth electron in one of the countless atoms of carbon in that cell?"
. . Al harumphed. "I suspect that's where your philosophy would displease almost every Human."
. . "True, but it's quite egotistical to think that the universe pays day-by-day attention to even a whole species, let alone to one individual."
. . "I think I see," said Al. "It's like a photographer developing a photograph. He's not interested in what each tiny dot of pigment is doing, only in what large numbers of them are doing en masse."
. . "Except that the photographer is the photograph. And," continued Lai, "the dot is so tiny that if it suddenly changes color, it won't be noticed by the rest of the photograph. That tiny dot isn't just you, though: it's not Earth nor even the Milky Way galaxy. It's a hundred million galaxies and all the empty void between them. Things so vast we can't imagine them, and yet they're too small to notice in the universe at large."
. . "Most Earth mythologies try to make things small and simple," said Al.
. . "I've always found that odd," agreed Lai. "The people who most seek to praise the glory of their god are the same people who narrow his creative talents to this one little planet. Some Humans I've met sincerely believe that Creation is only a few thousand years old. The Whales would certainly beg to differ. Their dreamtime dates back twenty million years! I could accept the misunderstanding a few centuries ago, but today's Humans should know better."
. . Al's eyebrows drew together. "What's the point of living, then? Of trying to achieve anything?"
. . "Maybe I didn't say it as clearly as I should have done: we never expect to be noticed by the whole universe. That's why our planet's destruction didn't destroy our people's self-confidence: we knew that ours was but one tiny planet in a tiny galaxy. Our astronomers by that time had counted over a trillion galaxies. There was no all-being out to destroy us, it was just bad luck. To the universe as a whole, we were completely insignificant. To ourselves, however, we were quite significant, so we did what was necessary to escape. That's the point of living: because you, your friends, and your world are significant to you."
. . Al said, "Most Human tribes faced with such catastrophes felt they were being tested, or punished, or prepared for greatness."
. . "There's that arrogance again, the assumption that a handful of people are worth being noticed by the universe. No, we didn't fall for any of that. Our failing is that a lot of my people hide from reality by pretending they're still on our birthworld."

Valdena

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 12:20 pm

Typically a very controversial subject. One of my college professors spurred a debate on the subject. More than 1/2 of the class were creationists. At the end my teacher gave his opinion. He let us know he attended a private Christian university, and that he leaned towards creation. I personally give credit where credit is due, I am a creationist.

No haters please.

:D

Isina

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 12:28 pm

Evolution, obviously.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 12:53 pm

Quote (Isina @ Jan. 20 2010, 12:28 pm)
Evolution, obviously.

That word obviously could get some angry replies from some people. instead of putting it like that, why don't you back up your belief?

Beccs_

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:22 pm



I accept the fact of evolution.


And no, creation should not be taught in a science class.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:25 pm

Quote (Beccs_ @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:22 pm)


I accept the fact of evolution.


And no, creation should not be taught in a science class.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, but... does just saying its a fact make it a fact?

The sky's pink. That's a fact.

That doesn't prove anything.

Why do you believe in Evolution, then?

EDIT: I do agree with your comment about the science class, though.

Beccs_

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:35 pm

Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Jan. 19 2010, 2:25 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:22 pm)


I accept the fact of evolution.


And no, creation should not be taught in a science class.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, but... does just saying its a fact make it a fact?

The sky's pink. That's a fact.

That doesn't prove anything.

Why do you believe in Evolution, then?

EDIT: I do agree with your comment about the science class, though.

I don't "believe" in evolution, I accept evolution - big difference.

Why do I accept it and why do I call it a fact?

Because of the overwhelming amount of supporting evidence.

For the fact that it's been attacked by hostile creationists and very hostile scientists for over 150 years and has not only stood up to the scrutiny but has developed well beyond what Darwin predicted but along the ways that scientists have predicted.

Because it has spawned a number of other sciences - all of which have contributed greatly to our understanding of ourselves and our planet.  

Because, and this is a kicker, it has been observed in nature.

rocketscientist

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:39 pm

Quote (Beccs_ @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:22 pm)


I accept the fact of evolution.


And no, creation should not be taught in a science class.

I agree.  I'm a moderate to liberal Catholic (I don't know which) and I'm also an aerospace engineer with an applied physics background.  I think creationism or intelligent design should be kept in church, not school.  I'd have a big problem if my kids were being taught that in school.

ViperMan2000

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POSTS: 3232

Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:44 pm

Quote (Beccs_ @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:35 pm)
I don't "believe" in evolution, I accept evolution - big difference.

Why do I accept it and why do I call it a fact?

Because of the overwhelming amount of supporting evidence.

For the fact that it's been attacked by hostile creationists and very hostile scientists for over 150 years and has not only stood up to the scrutiny but has developed well beyond what Darwin predicted but along the ways that scientists have predicted.

Because it has spawned a number of other sciences - all of which have contributed greatly to our understanding of ourselves and our planet. ¿

Because, and this is a kicker, it has been observed in nature.

I've never seen any proof for evolution. Every once in a while, I'll hear something about a missing link being discovered, then a little while later I'll hear that they found out it was made with modeling clay, or something to that extent. You say "overwhelming amount of supporting evidence"? Well, could you talk about any of that? Maybe give references? I've been more that willing to back up my reasonings :D

DaDeuceIsLoose

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:44 pm

Creation :logical:

:cool:

Beccs_

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Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:47 pm

Quote (rocketscientist @ Jan. 19 2010, 2:39 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:22 pm)


I accept the fact of evolution.


And no, creation should not be taught in a science class.

I agree. ¿I'm a moderate to liberal Catholic (I don't know which) and I'm also an aerospace engineer with an applied physics background. ¿I think creationism or intelligent design should be kept in church, not school. ¿I'd have a big problem if my kids were being taught that in school.

That's all I've ever asked of people.  Keep religion in church and at home and science, maths, etc in schools.  

For a start if you're going to get creation in school then you have to teach all the various creation stories from around the world, not just one or a selected few.

Most of my family are christians - either Catholic or JWs.  I was raised Catholic myself. I don't generally have a problem with religiouns or the religious unless it's used to the detriment of others.

ViperMan2000

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POSTS: 3232

Report this Jan. 20 2010, 1:50 pm

Quote (Beccs_ @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:47 pm)
Quote (rocketscientist @ Jan. 19 2010, 2:39 pm)
Quote (Beccs_ @ Jan. 20 2010, 1:22 pm)


I accept the fact of evolution.


And no, creation should not be taught in a science class.

I agree. ?I'm a moderate to liberal Catholic (I don't know which) and I'm also an aerospace engineer with an applied physics background. ?I think creationism or intelligent design should be kept in church, not school. ?I'd have a big problem if my kids were being taught that in school.

That's all I've ever asked of people. ¿Keep religion in church and at home and science, maths, etc in schools. ¿

For a start if you're going to get creation in school then you have to teach all the various creation stories from around the world, not just one or a selected few.

Most of my family are christians - either Catholic or JWs. ¿I was raised Catholic myself. I don't generally have a problem with religiouns or the religious unless it's used to the detriment of others.

You have JW family members? I wonder if I know them... Where are they from?

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