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Riker vs. Tucker

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 10 2010, 10:35 pm

I was just watching the TNG episode Second Chances, and I got the thought, "How does William Riker relate to Charles Tucker III?" What are your thoughts?

grigori

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Report this Jan. 10 2010, 10:47 pm

Riker was more aggressive with women: Tucker just sat back and smiled and women always made the first move.

We never actually got to see Tucker as First Officer, though he was slated for it. But he was old friends with the Captain, while Riker had just met Picard.

Picard allowed Riker to lead away teams, but back in Archer's day there were no rules ham-stringing the Captain and Archer was more like Riker in that he was the one always charging into danger; the Chief Engineer often had to hang back.

Tucker's "career" never got much attention; Riker came across as more ambitious. Tucker was right where he wanted to be.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 10 2010, 10:52 pm

Well, I think Riker did enjoy his position, too, as he turned down many-a-command in favor of staying aboard the Enterprise D and E.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 10 2010, 10:54 pm

Didn't Archer make a reference to a rule for Captains to stay on the ship? It seemed like he also referenced the Prime Directive... It's kinda hard for me to remember. I was only 12 when I saw those episodes :O

grigori

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Report this Jan. 10 2010, 11:14 pm

No, one of the more salient points in ENT is that there WAS no Prime Directive. In one episode T'Pol points out that while Vulcans had rules governing first contact, that Archer, and eventually Starfleet, was going to have to formulate his own directives on the subject.

I also don't think there was any such rule about Captains staying on the ship in Archer's time. And certainly not in practice: he made a point of always being the first man in, the last man out.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 10 2010, 11:32 pm

I'm pretty sure Archer gave a speech in which he said something like "Perhaps one day, we'll have rules, or a directive, that will tell us what to do in this situation, but until then..."

I'm almost positive that happened.

batouyukinawa

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 2:25 am

There's really no comparison. Riker was the second in command. If anything, wouldn't it be more pertinent to compare Riker to T'pol? I'm sorry, I just don't get what's even remotely similar between these two characters.

Serit

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 7:45 am

Riker and Picard, by extension, were administrators. Trip was a technician--in fact, IMHO, Trip, Scotty, and B'Elanna are the Engineering Gods/Goddess of the Trekverse.

I'm not comparing their social skills--well, actually, I am--it seems that it was the (de facto) XO's job to romance the alien babes in the 22nd Century; then it switched to Captains in the 23rd C., and returned to the XO by the 24th C.--captains probably had too much (virtual) paperwork by then!

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 9:11 am

Well, I was thinking that Trip and Riker were both good looking single guys that have had (or will have) relationships with other crew members that don't really last. They both have friendly personalities, make friends easily, and they got all the women of the show (I think... I missed a few episodes of Enterprise).

grigori

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 1:18 pm

Quote (ViperMan2000 @ Jan. 11 2010, 9:11 am)
Well, I was thinking that Trip and Riker were both good looking single guys that have had (or will have) relationships with other crew members that don't really last. They both have friendly personalities, make friends easily, and they got all the women of the show (I think... I missed a few episodes of Enterprise).

Nope, you're right, Trip got ALL the women on the show. But apart from that similarity, their modes and personalities were quite different.

...from Dear Doctor:

ARCHER: I have reconsidered. I spent the whole night reconsidering, and what I've decided goes against all my principles. Someday my people are going to come up with some sort of a doctrine, something that tells us what we can and can't do out here, should and shouldn't do. But until somebody tells me that they've drafted that directive I'm going to have to remind myself every day that we didn't come out here to play God.

from Desert Crossing:

T'POL: Contacting new worlds always involves unexpected risks. The High Command has very specific protocols regarding planetary conflicts. Eventually, Captain Archer will have to create some directives of his own.

captainroe

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 1:32 pm

It's funny because I just read the first 3 ENT books, and I gotta say I like Trip more in the books than I did on the show, and after reading the Titan books, I like Riker better on TNG than in the books.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 5:27 pm

Ok, if no one thinks they really compare well, then compare and contrast.

ViperMan2000

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 5:32 pm

I had Riker on my mind, and I was just thinking "Who would he relate to on Enterprise?"

(In my opinion, there are always some parallels within characters; the Lady's Man, the Boy Genius, the Doctor that Can Cure Anything, the Emotionless Person That is Trying to Understand Humanity Better, etc.)

Well, he wouldn't really relate to Hoshi, he wouldn't relate to Phlox, Malcolm, T'Pol, or Mayweather, so I thought "He does share some traits with Tucker." Then I made this forum to discuss the relation between the two characters, either way.

grigori

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 5:44 pm

You're right about the character types that often crop up in Trek, admittedly each time with a new twist, but I really don't see much of a Riker on the ENT crew, except maybe Reed...Reed's kinda hard-nosed about his role for security, gets aggressive with his job, so does Riker.

I just wanted to point out that as far as a "lady's man" goes, ENT went over the top and in the OPPOSITE direction on that one. What thread were we discussing this one? Talk about a twist: Tucker doesn't pursue, he just kinda sits back and smiles and is a charming gentlemen, and he GETS the women.

It's a quantifiable fact that the only male on the ENT crew who "gets" any from anyone besides an ex is Tucker. First trip to Risa, it's sweet little Hoshi who gets the action. ENT is FULL of gender twists, mostly very clever. Trip gets pregnant and the "mother" is long gone.

So in that sense, there go a few of the possible stock character types to compare and contrast from the Enterprise crew. Archer's got Kirk's down-to-earth grittiness ( I'm gonna knock you on your ass! ) but none of his ego, and certainly none of his macho womanizing. (He hooks up what, once in four years?) As a leader, he's probably the most "nurturing" and team-oriented of all Trek Captains, probably less ego and more nurturing than Janeway on occasion.

Interesting tack to take, for those of us who have seen ALL of the Trek series repeatedly! :)

Dbear1

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Report this Jan. 11 2010, 5:58 pm

I never considered Riker and Trip anything alike.  Riker always came across as a bit stuffy and arrogant (not knocking those of you that liked Riker), while Trip came across as much more outgoing and open. Trip also seemed to be more willing to speak his mind (sometimes too much), and he was the first to confront the Captain if he thought the Captain was wrong.  Riker was much more circumstance when talking to Picard.

Excluding Gerodi in TNG all the engineers in ST seemed to be the individuals that where a bit off from the rest of the crew. Scotty, OBrian, Torres and Trip seemed to me to have much more rough edges then the other crew members.  The writers seemed to try using the Enginners to represent the blue collar types in the crews.  Granted the difference between Trip and his crew was not quite so pronounced because the Enterprise crew was not as polished for lack of a better term like some of the other crews.

As for women, as grigori stated he was much less aggressive then Riker.  Really the only woman you could at all say he chased was TPol, and even then she had to make the first move on the final step.

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