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The Problems of Remastering

DS9Master83

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POSTS: 396

Report this Jan. 04 2010, 6:52 pm

I recently read somewhere that it's unlikely that TNG, DS9 & VOY will ever be released in remastered formats for Bluray due to cost and technical reasons. One person on a random fourm stated that
Quote
DS9 like many pre HD era TV shows was shot on film but edited on video. Not just the effects. Meaning The masters are on video. The best resolution you will get is 480i. They would have to go back and found ALL the original film footage, rescanned it in HD and redid ALL the FX. What would they do if they can't find all the footage? Just upscale the missing bits? Would look awful and mismatched.

Is this true? Does anybody know the exact film and equipment used for the filming and production of TNG, DS9 & VOY? Is there any chance of these shows ever being remastered considering all of the obstacles?

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Jan. 04 2010, 6:59 pm

I have heard this several times myself, and I believe it to be true.

DS9's "Trials and Tribbleations" episode is included as an extra on the TOS Season 2 BluRay set. It looks pretty bad. I'd assume that is the best they could do with it.

It won't stop me from watching them, though...

Narada

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Report this Jan. 04 2010, 7:15 pm

I hope they release Enterprise in bluray some day. If I ever get a bluray.

:(  :p

sonofspock1

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Report this Jan. 04 2010, 7:18 pm

That'd be a lot of episodes mind...

captbates

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Report this Jan. 04 2010, 7:22 pm

Quote (Vger23 @ Jan. 03 2010, 11:59 pm)
I have heard this several times myself, and I believe it to be true.

DS9's "Trials and Tribbleations" episode is included as an extra on the TOS Season 2 BluRay set. It looks pretty bad. I'd assume that is the best they could do with it.

It won't stop me from watching them, though...

If Trials and Tribbleations is an extra on the BD it will simply be a standard def transfer straight to Blu-Ray, possibly not even scaled up for the disk.

I don't know that for a fact, but it's very unlikely that they would have done anything with it.

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Jan. 04 2010, 7:23 pm

Quote (Narada @ Jan. 04 2010, 12:15 am)
I hope they release Enterprise in bluray some day. If I ever get a bluray.

:( ¿:p

It's a foregone conclusion, just a matter of when.

Narada

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POSTS: 4010

Report this Jan. 04 2010, 7:27 pm

Quote (captbates @ Jan. 04 2010, 7:23 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Jan. 04 2010, 12:15 am)
I hope they release Enterprise in bluray some day. If I ever get a bluray.

:( ?:p

It's a foregone conclusion, just a matter of when.

:cool:  :D  :logical:

captbates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12614

Report this Jan. 04 2010, 8:17 pm

Quote (DS9Master83 @ Jan. 03 2010, 11:52 pm)
I recently read somewhere that it's unlikely that TNG, DS9 & VOY will ever be released in remastered formats for Bluray due to cost and technical reasons. One person on a random fourm stated that
Quote
DS9 like many pre HD era TV shows was shot on film but edited on video. Not just the effects. Meaning The masters are on video. The best resolution you will get is 480i. They would have to go back and found ALL the original film footage, rescanned it in HD and redid ALL the FX. What would they do if they can't find all the footage? Just upscale the missing bits? Would look awful and mismatched.

Is this true? Does anybody know the exact film and equipment used for the filming and production of TNG, DS9 & VOY? Is there any chance of these shows ever being remastered considering all of the obstacles?

This question has been asked many times before, but until we get more information it's hard to say for sure.
It all depends on if the original 35mm film is usable/intact or even still around, if so I'm sure it will happen.


If it's impossible to get an HD transfer then the only option is upscalling together with remastering, but is it worth the effort, and would we want to spend our hard earned cash on it, when we can up-scale the DVD ourselves?

TrekFan1701E

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POSTS: 14979

Report this Jan. 05 2010, 10:44 am

I wish they could remaster all the Trek series HD Widescreen but I guess that would be really costly? Isn't the TOS BluRay still in 4x3? I wonder how much more they would cost than the regular DVD's?

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Jan. 05 2010, 2:56 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 04 2010, 3:31 pm)
They didn't have to "remaster" TOS in the first place...

:logical:

Yes they did.
The Blu-Ray extras shows exactly how the series was remastered, and how extensive the process was. Without all the extra work the "picture" would have sucked by Blu-Ray standards. After 40+years of degrading, they did a fine job restoring the print.

DS9TREK

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POSTS: 14322

Report this Jan. 07 2010, 4:02 pm

Quote (captbates @ Jan. 05 2010, 12:22 am)
Quote (Vger23 @ Jan. 03 2010, 11:59 pm)
I have heard this several times myself, and I believe it to be true.

DS9's "Trials and Tribbleations" episode is included as an extra on the TOS Season 2 BluRay set. It looks pretty bad. I'd assume that is the best they could do with it.

It won't stop me from watching them, though...

If Trials and Tribbleations is an extra on the BD it will simply be a standard def transfer straight to Blu-Ray, possibly not even scaled up for the disk.

I don't know that for a fact, but it's very unlikely that they would have done anything with it.

It was upscaled for blu-ray and actually looks worse than the DVD version.

DS9TREK

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14322

Report this Jan. 07 2010, 4:09 pm

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Jan. 05 2010, 1:37 am)
Quote (captbates @ Jan. 04 2010, 4:22 pm)
Quote (Vger23 @ Jan. 03 2010, 11:59 pm)
I have heard this several times myself, and I believe it to be true.

DS9's "Trials and Tribbleations" episode is included as an extra on the TOS Season 2 BluRay set. It looks pretty bad. I'd assume that is the best they could do with it.

It won't stop me from watching them, though...

If Trials and Tribbleations is an extra on the BD it will simply be a standard def transfer straight to Blu-Ray, possibly not even scaled up for the disk.

I don't know that for a fact, but it's very unlikely that they would have done anything with it.

Right. I know for a fact the could remaster DS9 like TOS was done very inexpensively(with our redoing any visual effects shots) since they now use the same technique on TV shows from the 70's and 80's(think "Cheer's").

I think they just didn't feel like taking the time or spending the money do it correctly.

They'd have to redo at least some of the visual effects. Getting an HD image means going back to the 35mm negatives and those will lack things like transporter effects. Now while they could just add the SD space effects to the HD masters they couldn't do that with the effects in live action shots, they'd have to be redone from scratch.

DS9TREK

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POSTS: 14322

Report this Jan. 07 2010, 4:14 pm

Quote (captbates @ Jan. 05 2010, 7:56 pm)
Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 04 2010, 3:31 pm)
They didn't have to "remaster" TOS in the first place...

:logical:

Yes they did.
The Blu-Ray extras shows exactly how the series was remastered, and how extensive the process was. Without all the extra work the "picture" would have sucked by Blu-Ray standards. After 40+years of degrading, they did a fine job restoring the print.

We've got people misusing the term 'remastered' these days. You're correct, it means cleaning up the prints, but most use it to mean the redoing of the visual effects that they also did.

fooledagain

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POSTS: 878

Report this Jan. 08 2010, 12:00 pm

Quote (ServalanFan @ Jan. 05 2010, 8:48 am)
It may be a marketing thing. They may do what they did with TOS.
Finally release every series on DVD in its entirety.
Then wait until everyone has bought whatever series they want.

Then wait a couple of years and remaster and then release that on DVD.
Then wait another few years and release them on blu-ray.

That way you buy 3 copies of the same thing like I did with TOS. ? :O :angry: :laugh:

And a few years after that you get blu-ray in 3D. And a few years after that you get a complete CG version with the original actors. And on and on...

Or you could just keep paying your cable company to watch Spike and Syfy's butchered and compressed shittay looking so called "HD".  :grr:

captbates

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POSTS: 12614

Report this Jan. 08 2010, 2:23 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 06 2010, 9:16 pm)
Quote (captbates @ Jan. 05 2010, 2:56 pm)
Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 04 2010, 3:31 pm)
They didn't have to "remaster" TOS in the first place...

:logical:

Yes they did.
The Blu-Ray extras shows exactly how the series was remastered, and how extensive the process was. Without all the extra work the "picture" would have sucked by Blu-Ray standards. After 40+years of degrading, they did a fine job restoring the print.

I actually mean as far as replacing the special effects...

:logical:

Over here it's called the "enhanced" version (new FX), which we never got on DVD, only Blu-Ray.

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