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Should kirk have saved Nero?

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 9:13 pm

Quote (Narada @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:06 am)
Since Romulans branched off from Vulcan I would like to see them displayed even more to contrast. Maybe there are many moments this is shown but it is a good chance to contrast "logic vs. emotion" with a culture of people who were once related. I always felt the Romulans favored emotion over logic which is a nice contrast with Vulcans. Who is to say one side is more important? This is one of the concepts regularly explored in Star Trek.

Yes. And probably best displayed by the wonderful Female Romulan Commander :cool:

Narada

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 9:18 pm

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Jan. 05 2010, 9:13 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:06 am)
Since Romulans branched off from Vulcan I would like to see them displayed even more to contrast. Maybe there are many moments this is shown but it is a good chance to contrast "logic vs. emotion" with a culture of people who were once related. I always felt the Romulans favored emotion over logic which is a nice contrast with Vulcans. Who is to say one side is more important? This is one of the concepts regularly explored in Star Trek.

Yes. And probably best displayed by the wonderful Female Romulan Commander :cool:

Yes I think I see your point. I think you like the Original Series Romulans very much because of their emotional eloquence? I think they have a natural grace. This is partly what gave them good complexity because they were not just villains. I do consider the new movie Romulans to be a different approach but I guess they were not so graceful because they were miners and not soldiers with the Romulan Star Empire?

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 9:31 pm

Quote (Narada @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:18 am)
Yes I think I see your point. I think you like the Original Series Romulans very much because of their emotional eloquence? I think they have a natural grace. This is partly what gave them good complexity because they were not just villains. I do consider the new movie Romulans to be a different approach but I guess they were not so graceful because they were miners and not soldiers with the Romulan Star Empire?

Emotional eloquence...that's a good way to put it :cool:

I also think they were people of great integrity.

You make a good point about Nero and his crew being miners as opposed to soldiers...still, that's not the direction I would have chosen...

And on that topic, I find it a little hard to believe that the only Romulans who seemed poised to do anything about the destruction of their planet was a bunch of miners?

Narada

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 9:35 pm

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Jan. 05 2010, 9:31 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:18 am)
Yes I think I see your point. I think you like the Original Series Romulans very much because of their emotional eloquence? I think they have a natural grace. This is partly what gave them good complexity because they were not just villains. I do consider the new movie Romulans to be a different approach but I guess they were not so graceful because they were miners and not soldiers with the Romulan Star Empire?

Emotional eloquence...that's a good way to put it :cool:

I also think they were people of great integrity.

You make a good point about Nero and his crew being miners as opposed to soldiers...still, that's not the direction I would have chosen...

And on that topic, I find it a little hard to believe that the only Romulans who seemed poised to do anything about the destruction of their planet was a bunch of miners?

Thank you. Yes that is not included in the back story on screen. They describe what occurs in the comic but I agree it is not made clear in the movie.

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 9:45 pm

Quote (Narada @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:35 am)
Yes that is not included in the back story on screen. They describe what occurs in the comic but I agree it is not made clear in the movie.

So in the comic there are other Romulans who take action after the destruction of the planet?

Narada

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 9:56 pm

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Jan. 05 2010, 9:45 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:35 am)
Yes that is not included in the back story on screen. They describe what occurs in the comic but I agree it is not made clear in the movie.

So in the comic there are other Romulans who take action after the destruction of the planet?

I have to read again to remember exactly but here are some links to the summaries if you wish to know the story. If I remember I think the Romulans did not believe Spock when he told them and then Spock and Nero had a hard time to convince Vulcan to give them the Red Matter. Then once they got it they were too late. I think Nero went back 1st but when he arrived Spock was late and that is why he was angry with him and Vulcan.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek:_Countdown

Countdown One
Countdown Two
Countdown Three
Countdown Four

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jan. 06 2010, 10:18 am

Okay, so I've just read all of the Memory-Alpha synopses for the Countdown comics, and...what a fantastic story! It's a crime that so much of this was left out of the film. And I can finally say that I DO have a bit of an understanding of Nero now, and why he did what he did.

It is such a shame that this rich and wonderful backstory was ignored so much by the film itself.

Thanks so much for those links Narada, it has made me look at Nero in a whole new light :)

MrsStarbuck

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Report this Jan. 06 2010, 10:28 am

Quote (VAD_BAXTER @ Jan. 05 2010, 4:21 pm)
The comics were wrote after the screen play, which explains why the back story is excellent.

Ooh...okay. Well that kind of puts a bit of a different spin on it.

So initially, Nero really WAS created as the flat and one-dimensional villain that he appears to be on screen, and only LATER did they fill in the holes with exposition? Is that it?

Well, either way they should have shoehorned some of the Countdown stuff into the film :p

Narada

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Report this Jan. 06 2010, 3:42 pm

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Jan. 06 2010, 10:18 am)
Okay, so I've just read all of the Memory-Alpha synopses for the Countdown comics, and...what a fantastic story! It's a crime that so much of this was left out of the film. And I can finally say that I DO have a bit of an understanding of Nero now, and why he did what he did.

It is such a shame that this rich and wonderful backstory was ignored so much by the film itself.

Thanks so much for those links Narada, it has made me look at Nero in a whole new light :)

You are welcome and thank you. Yes I like the Countdown comics very much and it gives even more appreciation to the movie and characters. Some people may wish more of this information was in the real movie but I am also satisfied with what we were given. I also like to analyze the movie with allegories and archetypes which also gives more meaning and value to the story. Some stories were not written in this way but I am thankful Star Trek was.

Captain_Hammond

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Report this Jan. 08 2010, 12:07 am

I do think that some replies are trying to emphasize the idealism of Star Trek sometimes, as someone mentioned of TNG about saving the villian.  Just think back to certain events that has happened in this reality in the the past decade, I won't specifically mention any specifics to avoid debates and arguments, but think about those villians.  Say you did offer to help them, but they refused, what would YOU do?

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