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Regeneration

kludge77

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1477

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 10:39 am

As soon as this episode opened we all knew what was going down! DON'T POKE THE BORG!

DRAKE: You seem a little jumpy.
ROONEY: Cybernetic corpses, digging through frozen remains in the middle of the night, why would I be jumpy?
DRAKE: I'd be more worried about the polar bears.

Don't bet on it mister!

Okay, so these are the left overs from FC right? I mean that has to be it. Picards leftovers (seems a bit sloppy of him) Anyway I was totally not in the mood for another TNG enemy in ENT. We had, but it's done. And now the shock and surprise of Picard meeting them for the first time is a bit odd. Regardless

It was a really FUN episode. I loved the action, and our first look at the BORG without the narration of a Q. Additionally Phlox is proving quite resourceful.

Should they have gone there though? When I finished the episode I though, "Wow, well done!" Later on mulling the timeline issues over I'm now thinking, "What the hell." So I've decided it's a little of both.

A well done WTH.

Middleman

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POSTS: 3657

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 10:57 am

I know so many long time Trek fans had problems with this episode, but I thought it was one of Enterprise's best! Certainly in my top 10. Now that JJ threw the old canon out the window maybe these guys will lighten up a bit.

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 10:58 am

I loved this episode. Well done, creepy, great atmosphere.

grigori

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POSTS: 10463

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 12:52 pm

I don't entirely get the finer points of the distinction, but some posit that First Contact is the only thing that made ENT unfold as WE know it, and Regeneration is the proof.

That is, history surrounding the ENT may well have been DIFFERENT in TOS, TNG as we saw those episodes prior to Picard's back-in-time "alteration" of history. This approach would explain away virtually every single canon violation in ENT.

Or, you can think as I do: it IS possible to "correct" your own existing timeline without it splintering off into a new one, or without it changing completely for you when you return to the future--else why does Daniels repeatedly have Archer correct his own ( Daniels' ) timeline; why even try? What's Braxton's job in VOY if not for that?

(While other episodes in Trek DO show alternate Universes, a la quantum theory, but that's not always the ONLY option for what happens in Trek time travel stories.)

Well, the rest of it goes over my head. I liked the "blow them into space" solution; it was a difficult decision but showed logical wisdom.

kludge77

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POSTS: 1477

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 1:00 pm

Quote (grigori @ Dec. 22 2009, 9:52 pm)
I don't entirely get the finer points of the distinction, but some posit that First Contact is the only thing that made ENT unfold as WE know it, and Regeneration is the proof.

That is, history surrounding the ENT may well have been DIFFERENT in TOS, TNG as we saw those episodes prior to Picard's back-in-time "alteration" of history. This approach would explain away virtually every single canon violation in ENT.

Or, you can think as I do: it IS possible to "correct" your own existing timeline without it splintering off into a new one, or without it changing completely for you when you return to the future--else why does Daniels repeatedly have Archer correct his own (Daniels';) timeline; why even try? What's Braxton's job in VOY if not for that?

(While other episodes in Trek DO show alternate Universes, a la quantum theory, but that's not always the ONLY option for what happens in Trek time travel stories.)

Well, the rest of it goes over my head. I liked the "blow them into space" solution; it was a difficult decision but showed logical wisdom.

Yes. I know that we CAN explain anything we want. That is the beauty of this medium from a writers perspective. And in VOY we were drilled that effect can proceed cause.

I understand it (as far as ST is concerned at least) but I was slightly disappointed that we even had to go there. Regardless, we did and overall I like the episode a lot. Plus LOTS of great Reed screen time.

Middleman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3657

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 4:16 pm

Quote (grigori @ Dec. 23 2009, 12:52 pm)
I don't entirely get the finer points of the distinction, but some posit that First Contact is the only thing that made ENT unfold as WE know it, and Regeneration is the proof.

That is, history surrounding the ENT may well have been DIFFERENT in TOS, TNG as we saw those episodes prior to Picard's back-in-time "alteration" of history. This approach would explain away virtually every single canon violation in ENT.

Just my opinion, but I don't buy that at all and my reason for saying that is that the NX-01 was up and around before the Borg were discovered by 22nd century man. The time line distortion, if any, seemed to be confined to the events of a single episode. The TNG crew really didn't disturb the time line that we saw on screen in First Contact and I thought Archer explained away nicely when discussing Cochran's "drunken rants" with T'Pol.

I hate to say it, but some Star Trek fans (myself included) need to find better things to do with their time. Sit back and enjoy the episode.

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 4:22 pm

Quote (Middleman @ Dec. 23 2009, 4:16 pm)
Quote (grigori @ Dec. 23 2009, 12:52 pm)
I don't entirely get the finer points of the distinction, but some posit that First Contact is the only thing that made ENT unfold as WE know it, and Regeneration is the proof.

That is, history surrounding the ENT may well have been DIFFERENT in TOS, TNG as we saw those episodes prior to Picard's back-in-time "alteration" of history. This approach would explain away virtually every single canon violation in ENT.

Just my opinion, but I don't buy that at all and my reason for saying that is that the NX-01 was up and around before the Borg were discovered by 22nd century man. The time line distortion, if any, seemed to be confined to the events of a single episode. The TNG crew really didn't disturb the time line that we saw on screen in First Contact and I thought Archer explained away nicely when discussing Cochran's "drunken rants" with T'Pol.

I hate to say it, but some Star Trek fans (myself included) need to find better things to do with their time. Sit back and enjoy the episode.

I agree with you on both counts - Archer's explanation and the Star Trek fans. :laugh:

Middleman

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POSTS: 3657

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 6:37 pm

Quote (whyaduck @ Dec. 23 2009, 4:22 pm)
I agree with you on both counts - Archer's explanation and the Star Trek fans. :laugh:

Just as a side note, I know my son and daughter bought me all the Star Trek movies in Blu-Ray for Christmas. I'll be able to confirm my "First Contact" time line opinion in Hi Def this weekend.
:laugh:

whyaduck

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POSTS: 3478

Report this Dec. 23 2009, 7:24 pm

Wow. Nice kids. :D

honeybee1111

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POSTS: 880

Report this Dec. 24 2009, 7:46 am

I love this episode. For one thing, after the crew of Voyager managed to defeat the Borg more than once and sort of defanged them - here we had SCARY borg again. Three rogue borg are a real threat - not only to the NX-01 - but to the entire quadrant practically.

And the fact that WE the audience know what they are dealing with, but the people onscreen don't - it's classic horror movie structure.

And if you listen to the commentary track, you'll hear the Mike Sussman really and truly thought through all the timeline/continuity issues and really made it so that it worked with everything on screen. It's a beautifully written and created episode - and its a shame that so many fans rejected it on technicalities.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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POSTS: 2016

Report this Dec. 24 2009, 1:17 pm

No this episode sucked, and I'll tell you way.  The Borg started out as a serious destructive force in TNG.  By the time Voyager was over they weren't that scarey anymore, and by the time this episode came out they were reduced to being parodied, and not to be taken seriously.

BrotherofShran01

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POSTS: 23344

Report this Dec. 25 2009, 8:51 am

Quote (honeybee1111 @ Dec. 24 2009, 7:46 am)
I love this episode. For one thing, after the crew of Voyager managed to defeat the Borg more than once and sort of defanged them - here we had SCARY borg again. Three rogue borg are a real threat - not only to the NX-01 - but to the entire quadrant practically.

And the fact that WE the audience know what they are dealing with, but the people onscreen don't - it's classic horror movie structure.

And if you listen to the commentary track, you'll hear the Mike Sussman really and truly thought through all the timeline/continuity issues and really made it so that it worked with everything on screen. It's a beautifully written and created episode - and its a shame that so many fans rejected it on technicalities.

I like this episode too. I was interested in seeing how Archer's crew would handle the Borg. I was surprised that the writers allowed the Borg on Archer's ship, and I wondered how Archer was going to get them out of there with the technology they had. Could you imagine what damage the Borg could have done with Archer's ship?!?

grigori

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POSTS: 10463

Report this Dec. 26 2009, 5:44 pm

thanks a lot, guys! :O I had a goofy convoluted dream Christmas eve that was like this episode (the Borg) meets Wolfenstein meets the ENT novel I just finished, What Price Honor. halfway through cleaning out the outpost filled with human Borg we met some aliens who had them on lock-down, paused to have an ethical debate over the shoot-out, then carried on.

oh, and it WAS scary. :D

BrotherofShran01

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POSTS: 23344

Report this Dec. 26 2009, 6:29 pm

Quote (grigori @ Dec. 26 2009, 5:44 pm)
thanks a lot, guys! :O I had a goofy convoluted dream Christmas eve that was like this episode (the Borg) meets Wolfenstein meets the ENT novel I just finished, What Price Honor. halfway through cleaning out the outpost filled with human Borg we met some aliens who had them on lock-down, paused to have an ethical debate over the shoot-out, then carried on.

oh, and it WAS scary. :D

Who won?

grigori

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10463

Report this Dec. 26 2009, 7:29 pm

Quote (BrotherofShran01 @ Dec. 26 2009, 6:29 pm)
oh, and it WAS scary. :D[/quote]
Who won?

After we took care of the flashy, duplicitous aliens in the admin area of the prison, we discovered we'd already cleaned out the Borg (who were armed btw) on the west side when we'd shot them up on the east side, because we didn't know they could move around inside the walls. So it was a nice surprise to have cleaned them before we realized we were done.

But it was disturbing, shooting at them.

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