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first post for ds9

bfniii

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 29

Report this Dec. 18 2009, 11:23 am

greetings. i'm posting some thoughts in case you are so bored that you have absolutely nothing worthwhile to do.

i'm just now getting around to ds9. better late than never. i have seen every episode from the other 3 st series and all the movies.

i hate to admit this but making it through ds9 is a chore. i almost quit twice in the 3rd season. the only thing keeping me going is garak, my favorite character by far. second skin and civil defense were quite good because garak was prominent.

what i have discovered is that i like the characters, i dislike the stories or the situations unless they involve garak. i often find myself fast forwarding through the crises but stopping for the interaction between the characters. for example, past tense was absolutely horrible because of it's childish transparency. most of the trials the characters are in just aren't compelling like bashir's weird coma. yawn.

quark's dealings with the nagus have been humorous as are his interactions with the crew. house of quark was very good i thought.

progress was a pointless rehash of two tng relocation episodes. crossover and through the looking glass were of course straight from tos but were very entertaining.

i like sisko. kira is annoying. i wish they would focus more on her spiritual apathy as opposed to her temper. odo is annoying but his story line is building re: the founders. bashir is acceptable especially when he's interacting with garak.

cardassian/bajoran storyline; hate it. just not interested in the oppression. bajoran spirituality, i like it.

maquis; never was interested in that arc in tng. although defiant was a very cool episode but it was more about thomas riker and his past than the maquis.

so now to the dominion. the jem'hadar are hard to figure out. are these elite shock troops? if so, they get fought off too easily in hand to hand combat so far. i like how the relationship between the facets of the dominion are set up. very creative from a scifi standpoint. ds9 missed a HUGE opportunity in the abandoned when they let the jem'hadar baby go back to the gamma quadrant. they should have kept him around for a while, a la seven of nine. he could have been the worf of the series. i just finished improbable cause and the die is cast. they were very good. again, they featured garak but the story was solid anyway.

pretty much all the other episodes i didn't mention were because they were so terrible i fast forwarded through them.

i'm definitely going to stick with it into the 4th season when they steal yet another tng character, worf.

sorry if i rained on your parade. so far, ds9 is a huge disappointment. let me know if you have any advice or if i'm not picking up on something.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Dec. 18 2009, 11:31 am

The only advice I can give you is to re-watch the series with out fast forwarding threw anything.

DS9 is more interwoven within it self then the other series.

Other treks tell stand along stories that rarely have any bearing on past or future episodes.

DS9 is more like a big puzzle with peaces spred ove many different episodes.

Commander_Zelkar

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POSTS: 7250

Report this Dec. 18 2009, 11:44 am

Welcome!

It helps to drink lots of beer while watching.

kvlc

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POSTS: 306

Report this Dec. 18 2009, 11:53 am

DS9 first 2 seasons were IMO weaker than those that followed.  Season 4 and onward are really great.  You might go through the whole series and decide it's not your cup of tea, but you also might be pleasantly surprised as the Dominion story arc develops.

bfniii

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 29

Report this Dec. 18 2009, 12:08 pm

Quote (kvlc @ Dec. 18 2009, 11:53 am)
DS9 first 2 seasons were IMO weaker than those that followed. ¿Season 4 and onward are really great. ¿You might go through the whole series and decide it's not your cup of tea, but you also might be pleasantly surprised as the Dominion story arc develops.

looking forward to it. thanks for the responses.

Mantaray

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2793

Report this Dec. 18 2009, 12:23 pm

Quote (stovokor2000 @ Dec. 18 2009, 11:31 am)
The only advice I can give you is to re-watch the series with out fast forwarding threw anything.

DS9 is more interwoven within it self then the other series.

Other treks tell stand along stories that rarely have any bearing on past or future episodes.

DS9 is more like a big puzzle with peaces spred ove many different episodes.

+1 Dead on.    Seasons 1-3 are basically the long ride up the roller coaster, Season 4 it takes off.

EdwardTivruskyIV

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POSTS: 2271

Report this Dec. 19 2009, 4:47 pm

Quote (Mantaray @ Dec. 17 2009, 1:23 pm)
Seasons 1-3 are basically the long ride up the roller coaster, Season 4 it takes off.

Exactly. I find that I can hardly tolerate most of season 1. I started watching in the middle of season 5 I think. If I had started watching from the beginning, not knowing what how great it gets, I might have given up. Now I go to season 2 and 3 for specific episodes: to see how it was all so brilliantly put together, to watch characters develop, etc.

Stick with it bfniii. It's definitely worth it.

WorfsGonads

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1095

Report this Dec. 19 2009, 8:34 pm

Quote (Mantaray @ Dec. 17 2009, 1:23 pm)
Quote (stovokor2000 @ Dec. 18 2009, 11:31 am)
The only advice I can give you is to re-watch the series with out fast forwarding threw anything.

DS9 is more interwoven within it self then the other series.

Other treks tell stand along stories that rarely have any bearing on past or future episodes.

DS9 is more like a big puzzle with peaces spred ove many different episodes.

+1 Dead on. ¿ ¿Seasons 1-3 are basically the long ride up the roller coaster, Season 4 it takes off.

Thanks mantaray, that's the best description I've ever heard of DS9, but you forgot to say "Hang on, it's one hell of a ride from here".

BrotherofShran01

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 23344

Report this Dec. 25 2009, 11:59 am

Quote (Commander_Zelkar @ Dec. 18 2009, 11:44 am)
Welcome!

It helps to drink lots of beer while watching.

Root beer is good too!

bfniii

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 29

Report this Jan. 22 2010, 9:40 pm

i have now finished season 4. my assessment is that ds9 is very inconsistent. what i mean is that when the show deals with big, overarching stories (tal shiar/obsidian order invasion, klingon/cardassian conflict, changelings at starfleet, rogue jem'hadar), the show is very good and entertaining.

on the other hand, individual character development through the first 3.5 seasons was not good at all. i very much disliked the kira/dukat stories, the dax trill stories, distant voices, the visitor. the muse was terrible. our man bashir was among the worst trek i've ever seen and yes i understand it was a parody. the mirror universe was average as were quark centric episodes. again, the jem'hadar are elite shock troops but far too often are beaten in one on one combat by dax/sisko, etc

episodes that focus on individuals started to improve like explorers, kassidy yates episodes, crossfire, klingon episodes, accession. hard time was excellent. worthy of inclusion with the best single episodes of any series. the ship was also quite good and had a very moving ending.

in the 4th season the show definitely started to depart from tng like in the die is cast when garak tortures odo. the characters definitely step over the line more than in tng. worf has been unsettled which i think is an interesting angle.

also, garak and sisko were really the only two truly interesting characters through the first 3 seasons but dax caught up. of course there's worf but he was interesting before. odo has had his moments. and as usual, a character that i really like is killed; munez. otherwise, kira, o'brien, bashir are blah. one thing i liked was giving rom his engineering job. nice touch.

unless there is serious improvement, this series stays at the bottom of all the trek series and it's not even close.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jan. 22 2010, 11:57 pm

Quote (bfniii @ Jan. 22 2010, 9:40 pm)
i have now finished season 4. my assessment is that ds9 is very inconsistent. what i mean is that when the show deals with big, overarching stories (tal shiar/obsidian order invasion, klingon/cardassian conflict, changelings at starfleet, rogue jem'hadar), the show is very good and entertaining.

on the other hand, individual character development through the first 3.5 seasons was not good at all. i very much disliked the kira/dukat stories, the dax trill stories, distant voices, the visitor. the muse was terrible. our man bashir was among the worst trek i've ever seen and yes i understand it was a parody. the mirror universe was average as were quark centric episodes. again, the jem'hadar are elite shock troops but far too often are beaten in one on one combat by dax/sisko, etc

episodes that focus on individuals started to improve like explorers, kassidy yates episodes, crossfire, klingon episodes, accession. hard time was excellent. worthy of inclusion with the best single episodes of any series. the ship was also quite good and had a very moving ending.

in the 4th season the show definitely started to depart from tng like in the die is cast when garak tortures odo. the characters definitely step over the line more than in tng. worf has been unsettled which i think is an interesting angle.

also, garak and sisko were really the only two truly interesting characters through the first 3 seasons but dax caught up. of course there's worf but he was interesting before. odo has had his moments. and as usual, a character that i really like is killed; munez. otherwise, kira, o'brien, bashir are blah. one thing i liked was giving rom his engineering job. nice touch.

unless there is serious improvement, this series stays at the bottom of all the trek series and it's not even close.

Then I would say its "just not your cup of tea".

TheDriver

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1652

Report this Jan. 23 2010, 8:46 am

To the original poster:

Honestly, I've found folks whose favorite characters are Quark and Garak tend to be on the "nerdier side of life." As they're associating with the "outliers."

And as awesome as those two characters are (and yes, I quite like them both), the fact you're not gravitating toward any of the other characters - the fast-forwarding confirms this - means you're probably not going to end up liking this show. DS9 has some extremely humorous elements, but really digs in deep for the drama. Which requires you to associate with most of the "serious" characters as well.

And your nitpicking comments about the Jem'Hadar shock troops just proves my point about your hanging out on the "nerdier side of life." (Not that there's anything wrong with that. It just means you're probably safer in TNG territory with Data, Geordi, tetryon particles, technobabble, etc.)

I'm afraid I'll have to side with Stovokor2000 and say DS9 might not be your cup o' tea.

WorfsGonads

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POSTS: 1095

Report this Jan. 24 2010, 6:44 pm

It is a very dark series.  If you are happy watching something is hunky-dory and everything will be alrright at the end of the episode, then TNG is your go.

bfniii

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 29

Report this Jan. 24 2010, 9:39 pm

thanks for the responses.

i actually like the darker elements. for example, i just watched nor the battle to the strong. i like it very much. but i still contend that quality of story didn't start showing up until the 4th season.

i definitely don't have the prerequisite for status quo ante. i don't mind that they are carrying story arcs across episodes but it's not like the other shows didn't do that. heck, enterprise season 3 was one big story. i've read that the last couple of seasons of ds9 are basically a serial so i'm looking forward to that.

i'm glad i've watched the series and there has been improvement. i'm certainly going to finish it now that i've come this far.

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Jan. 24 2010, 11:33 pm

Quote (bfniii @ Jan. 24 2010, 9:39 pm)
heck, enterprise season 3 was one big story.

Which is why season 3 of Enterprise is often compared to DS9 for its style of story telling.

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