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Would It Have Been Better Having The

grigori

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 5:36 pm

Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 29 2009, 2:32 pm)
Hell, it took me 2 minutes to come up with a way to get them out there without pi$$ing off the entire Trek fan base.

:laugh:

But it was BECAUSE they needed a test strike to help them build a weapon that would wipe out the Earth in one stroke. And we saw later they were still perfecting it till they had a weapon that would do just that. At least one of the tests had to be on the very planet they wanted to destroy.

Because if they bombarded it little by little there'd be too much retaliation by Earth and an all-out war they'd have to fight.

batouyukinawa

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 6:26 pm

I disagree. One does not test fire on the actual target; it defeats the whole purpose of a preemptive attack. As for needing to conduct test firings on the actual target; I disagree as well. I'm quite sure it would have been possible to find something comparable to our Earth, in terms of mass/density.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 8:33 pm

Quote (batouyukinawa @ Dec. 29 2009, 6:26 pm)
I disagree. One does not test fire on the actual target; it defeats the whole purpose of a preemptive attack.

I explained that a couple of posts ago. Nothing about the pre-emptive attack would be defeated if Earth had no idea it wasn't more than a single strike and had no idea who did it, much less where to find them.

The Sphere-Builders who misled the Xindi into building the test weapon and the real weapon never bargained on Future Guy.

batouyukinawa

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 9:34 pm

??? Obviously it did. Wasn't that the whole third season story arc? To find the Xindi? If the Xindi waited to attack with the real weapon; the humans never would have had a chance; just as the Japanese had no chance to retaliate in WWII. The bombs were dropped, and Japan was done. What the Xindi did, would be like us blowing up a remote island off of Japan; thus allowing Japan enough time to react at all. Odd, how our tactics 60 years ago were more sound then an advanced alien race more then 200 years in the future. This is equating to a 17th century civilization using more advanced warfare tactics then today. That's just really too hard to fathom.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 9:52 pm

Batou, did you read what I wrote? "Allowing Earth the time to react" is a completely moot point--react how? There was nothing they could have done to react, if not for Future Guy, and the Sphere-Builders didn't know Future Guy was going to intercede.

Sure it was a season-long arc. As with SO much of Trek, there would have been no story to tell if the most logical thing happened at the out-set.

batouyukinawa

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 10:12 pm

Well Grigori, in case you are not well versed in basic military tactics, I will elaborate. Any SPEC OPS in foreign soil makes #### sure they leave nothing that can lead back to them. It's simple really. If you're fighting in the middle east, you don't use M16A2/M4A1 assault rifles; you use an AK. If you are captured/killed there is nothing to lead them back to your country. You wear nothing to link you to your country of origin. So apply this to the Xindi and you can see my point. If you are testing a weapon; one, you don't test it on the intended target; and two, you don't use one of your own to do it. I mean, are they completely stupid? They are giving them their weapon, which could have been lead to the Xindi; and they were giving them one of their own. They gave them two leads. HOW IDIOTIC COULD ONE SPECIES BE?

grigori

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 10:17 pm

I think the Sphere Builders, with their future over-view, KNEW there was NO WAY the weapon could have led Earth back to the Xindi. The Expanse is a lot farther away than the Middle East.

batouyukinawa

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Report this Dec. 29 2009, 10:30 pm

You're missing the point. Distance is a moot point here. It's leaving evidence of your race/technology.

Forget it, I don't even care anymore. Agree to disagree.

TrekFan1701E

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Report this Dec. 30 2009, 10:26 am

Some think the Xindi arc should have only been a couple of episodes and not the whole season. Some say this was another reason for Enterprise's demise. I agree with Yanks. The Sphere Builders could have told them about Earth attaking their homeworld then the Xindi sent ships to bombard Earth with help from the Andorians and Vulcans Earth could have fending them off then sent Archer and crew into the Expanse to find out why they did it. They could still have met Degra and convinced him that they were being lied to by the Sphere Builders.

TrekFan1701E

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Report this Dec. 30 2009, 5:56 pm

Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 30 2009, 2:35 pm)
Quote (grigori @ Dec. 29 2009, 5:36 pm)
Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 29 2009, 2:32 pm)
Hell, it took me 2 minutes to come up with a way to get them out there without pi$$ing off the entire Trek fan base.

:laugh:

But it was BECAUSE they needed a test strike to help them build a weapon that would wipe out the Earth in one stroke. And we saw later they were still perfecting it till they had a weapon that would do just that. At least one of the tests had to be on the very planet they wanted to destroy.

Because if they bombarded it little by little there'd be too much retaliation by Earth and an all-out war they'd have to fight.

That's what we have to think as seen on screen G.

I've "gushed" this to death G and it's just stupid. I'm a military officer, and you never chance tipping the enemy like this - just never.

Why did they need what data? Really G, their second test during Proving Ground was on a moon...

All that test strike gave us was Trip's dead sister and an historic 1st ever massive geography changing alien attack on earth that killed 7 million people and was never heard about nor mentioned in 26 years of TV Star Trek and 10 movies ... ever.

It's clear they went out of their way repeatedly thoughout the series to adhere to/respect Star Trek canon and timeline. Why on earth would they do this? Frankly, I think they saw the writing on the wall and started flipping off the fan base right there, it's to easy to make the arc fit.

Yanks, this is why I said they should have brought in the Romulans instead of the Xindi because the Romulans have been mentioned in Trek History.

Allthough I have mentioned before about making the Xindi Insectiods the Jarada from TNG then that would be a connection to Enterprise.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 30 2009, 6:21 pm

Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 30 2009, 2:35 pm)
All that test strike gave us was Trip's dead sister and an historic 1st ever massive geography changing alien attack on earth that killed 7 million people...

Yeh, I know that it was an awkward plot device from a military perspective (see that Batou, I agree)--I was just trying to explain it away with the reasons the writers had; they wanted to accomplish 1) fore-warning of the attack 2) a personal vendetta with a crew member to make it immediate and more pressing--and this is the best they could come up with.

batouyukinawa

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Report this Dec. 31 2009, 2:33 am

Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 30 2009, 2:35 pm)
Quote (grigori @ Dec. 29 2009, 5:36 pm)
Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 29 2009, 2:32 pm)
Hell, it took me 2 minutes to come up with a way to get them out there without pi$$ing off the entire Trek fan base.

:laugh:

But it was BECAUSE they needed a test strike to help them build a weapon that would wipe out the Earth in one stroke. And we saw later they were still perfecting it till they had a weapon that would do just that. At least one of the tests had to be on the very planet they wanted to destroy.

Because if they bombarded it little by little there'd be too much retaliation by Earth and an all-out war they'd have to fight.

That's what we have to think as seen on screen G.

I've "gushed" this to death G and it's just stupid. I'm a military officer, and you never chance tipping the enemy like this - just never.

Why did they need what data? Really G, their second test during Proving Ground was on a moon...

All that test strike gave us was Trip's dead sister and an historic 1st ever massive geography changing alien attack on earth that killed 7 million people and was never heard about nor mentioned in 26 years of TV Star Trek and 10 movies ... ever.

It's clear they went out of their way repeatedly thoughout the series to adhere to/respect Star Trek canon and timeline. Why on earth would they do this? Frankly, I think they saw the writing on the wall and started flipping off the fan base right there, it's to easy to make the arc fit.

Yanks, I will never doubt you ever again.

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Dec. 31 2009, 12:25 pm

no

whyaduck

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Report this Dec. 31 2009, 1:34 pm

Quote (RedShirtGuyNumber1001 @ Dec. 31 2009, 12:25 pm)
no

huh?

RedShirtGuyNumber1001

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Report this Dec. 31 2009, 2:21 pm

just answering the Question.  The Xindi Reptillians had to be bad guys.  Just like the Cardassians had to be bad guys, I don't see them being good at any point.

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