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Xindi episodes airing

jolene_blalock_fan

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 1:16 am

"Countdown" tonight..again, very good.

Jolene Blalock SuperSite

grigori

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 6:22 pm

For all the criticisms of this season-long arc, I do get the tingles from Countdown on forward. We're weary of the quest, we're limping along, but the fight isn't gone from our intrepid crew...They really get wrenched right up to the wall, now. All-or-nothing high tension in the best TV dramatic action style.

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 6:38 pm

I actually liked the season long arch, I like how one episode can lead into another.  While stand alone episodes have their place, sometimes they lose meaning because you really do not see them having a true affect on the characters or the overall story.

The season really started pumping in Azie Prime onward IMO.  Loved the ship to ship battle scenes.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 6:47 pm

Yeh, Azati Prime is where it starts, all right...And battles on ALL levels! Personal struggles, political intrigue within the Xindi, Shran the wild card, space battles, hand to hand combat, suicide risks, Enterprise's mission becomes multi-faceted...

In the final hour they're trying to accomplish so MUCH--destroy the Spheres, save the Earth when the weapon's on their door-step...

We get the excitement of everything coming down to the last minute, yet they succeed only because Archer has laid the groundwork through the whole season with his explorations of the Xindi motivation, building relationships, building trust, sacrificing his own moral comfort for a larger struggle. And every person plays a part in the final success.

And the delicious irony of Humans saving the whole Expanse from the Sphere-builders--including the very people who are attacking Earth--when all they set out to do was save their own planet.

I wish it had been made more explicit that the Humans' handling--Archer's handling of the Xindi conflict gave Earth the final boost of cred to get them successfully through the Vulcan and Andorian arcs and onto the proto-Federation Coalition.

whyaduck

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 7:19 pm

Very well put, grigori.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 9:21 pm

Quote (whyaduck @ Dec. 18 2009, 7:19 pm)
Very well put, grigori.

tx! some days it feels like I'm pontificating the old way--when just the cat was listening... :D

whyaduck

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 9:32 pm

Quote (grigori @ Dec. 18 2009, 9:21 pm)
Quote (whyaduck @ Dec. 18 2009, 7:19 pm)
Very well put, grigori.

tx! some days it feels like I'm pontificating the old way--when just the cat was listening... :D

SNORK!!

grigori

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Report this Dec. 18 2009, 9:40 pm

Quote (whyaduck @ Dec. 18 2009, 9:32 pm)
Quote (grigori @ Dec. 18 2009, 9:21 pm)
Quote (whyaduck @ Dec. 18 2009, 7:19 pm)
Very well put, grigori.

tx! some days it feels like I'm pontificating the old way--when just the cat was listening... :D

SNORK!!

I lied. The cat wasn't really listening, either. :)

honeybee1111

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Report this Dec. 20 2009, 9:23 am

Quote
I wish it had been made more explicit that the Humans' handling--Archer's handling of the Xindi conflict gave Earth the final boost of cred to get them successfully through the Vulcan and Andorian arcs and onto the proto-Federation Coalition.


I do think there was subtext in this - but it's also true that Archer wasn't comfortable with all the praise he got - because like the hero of a thousand faces - he's somewhat broken by the events of the Expanse. It's a nice filter to see the credit he gets for saving - well the whole galaxy - through the personal cost to him.

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 20 2009, 9:40 am

Being identified as a hero is difficult for most people, especially when others that remain nameless gave up their lives.  It was perfectly understandable why Archer hated being held up as the hero, when he lost 28 members of his crew and most of them no one recognizes.

Another example were another crewmember mentioned how much it made him uncomfortable was Reed in Augment arch, were he stated something to the effect that he had more than enough recognition.

This is one reason I always felt that one of Archers best moments as a commander was his 18 speech at the beginning of The Forgotten.

ARCHER: We're in bad shape, I can't deny that, but we're still in one piece. Enterprise is a tough ship. She took more than anyone could ask her to and then some, and so have all of you. I wanted to say thank you. I only wish I could thank the eighteen crewmen who were lost. Like you, they understood how important our mission is and they accepted the risks. We came into the Expanse not knowing what we'd find, with no one to rely on but ourselves, but we're going to succeed, to accomplish our mission, for everyone on Earth who's relying on us, and for the eighteen.

whyaduck

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Report this Dec. 20 2009, 10:33 am

Great speech Dbear. Archer certainly was a reluctant hero. Over and over again, he has issues with people seeing him in that light. We know that he did what he had to do to save earth, but he gave up a little more of himself each time he had to do something that set his moral compass spinning.

When they first get back to SF and everyone is applauding him:

ARCHER: I've been told that people are calling us heroes. When it comes to my crew, you won't get any argument from me. But I think it's important that we remember the heroes who aren't with us. the twenty seven crewmen who didn't make it back. Without their sacrifice, I wouldn't be standing here right now. None of us would. But I'm sure I speak on behalf of my entire crew when I say it's good to be home.

Then later on the mountain after he tried to get away from everyone, but Erika showed up:

ARCHER: You want to know why I'm out here? I figured this is the last place I'd run into anyone who'd want to shake my hand or take my picture or tell me I'm an inspiration to their children. If they knew what I'd done.
ERIKA: You did what any captain would have done.
ARCHER: Does that include torture? Or marooning a ship full of innocent people? Because I don't remember reading those chapters in the handbook.
ERIKA: Where are you going, Jon? Are you going to go climbing in the middle of the night?
ARCHER: Why not?
ERIKA: It'd be a shame if you lost your footing. It's a long way down. But at least you wouldn't have to deal with these feelings anymore.
ARCHER: Are you telling me I have some kind of a death wish?
ERIKA: You tell me.
ARCHER: All I'm trying to do is get away from you. I look at you, and I see the person I was three years ago. The explorer that my father wanted me to be. I lost something out there, and I don't know how to get it back.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 20 2009, 12:38 pm

Tx, 'Duck. Outside of what T'Pol & Trip were put through in Demons/Terra Prime, this is some of the most spine-tingly stuff in ENT:

ARCHER: You want to know why I'm out here? I figured this is the last place I'd run into anyone who'd want to shake my hand or take my picture or tell me I'm an inspiration to their children. If they knew what I'd done....

ARCHER: All I'm trying to do is get away from you. I look at you, and I see the person I was three years ago. The explorer that my father wanted me to be. I lost something out there, and I don't know how to get it back.

1701AtoE

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Report this Dec. 22 2009, 10:22 pm

Yeah season 3 was what got me back to finish all Enterprise episodes several years later.

BrotherofShran01

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Report this Dec. 25 2009, 9:35 am

Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 17 2009, 6:00 am)
Quote (Dbear1 @ Dec. 16 2009, 6:36 pm)
Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 15 2009, 3:08 pm)
Quote (grigori @ Dec. 15 2009, 12:59 pm)
Quote (Dbear1 @ Dec. 15 2009, 9:36 am)
Sorry I started down this road, did not mean to derail this specific thread into religion. ?Although I do compliment you all on being well reasoned and polite on a very touchy subject.

Honeybee might just be right: we do seem fairly equal to the task of discussing the topic of religion in Trek objectively (pat current company on the back)--one doesn't need to pontificate polemics simply to discuss what's out there.

We've had some good examples to explore already. I don't have a special authority, either, and would like to hear more examples and commentary.

Didn't Tucker once mention going to church? (Maybe it was in the books...)

I don't remember Trip speaking about church.

But I've been wrong before, just can't remember when :laugh:

Whenever you disagree with me, then you should automatically know your wrong. ?;)


Indeed!  :laugh:  :laugh:

BrotherofShran01

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Report this Dec. 25 2009, 9:35 am

Quote (1701AtoE @ Dec. 22 2009, 10:22 pm)
Yeah season 3 was what got me back to finish all Enterprise episodes several years later.

How did you like season 4?

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