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Xindi episodes airing

jolene_blalock_fan

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:02 pm

I think SYFY is running Enterprise, lately. I have been catching the last few or so.  The Xindi story arc is pretty good.  still solid. I saw it when it first aired, now seeing it in re-runs it still holds up. anyone else think the same or watching it?

Narada

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:06 pm

I am not watching it right now but I agree it holds up as good Star Trek! There were times when I even consider that season 3 of Enterprise could be the best. But it is always hard for me to choose a favorite.

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:06 pm

When I need my Enterprise fix I just use my DVD collection, although I might have to replace some of them soon, some of the disk are giving me trouble, but I am hoping to hold out until the blurays come out.  But it is great that SYFY is running the shows again, might get some more Enterprise fans

honeybee1111

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:10 pm

I think there's a pretty passionate debate among fans - whether season 3 or season 4 is the best. I prefer Season 3 by a margin, and I've converted several Enterprise skeptics by showing them the best Season 3 episodes. I too watch my DVDs more than I watch SyFy - but I know that the Season 3 episodes are best for converting new fans. If you can't be won over by Twilight, Similitude and The Forgotten - you're not paying attention.

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:13 pm

I agree season three is a lot of fun to watch.  I admit I am not a Twilight fan (do not like reset buttons), but Similitude and the Forgotten are awesome, as well as Damage IMO.

Narada

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:14 pm

Quote (honeybee1111 @ Dec. 11 2009, 9:10 pm)
I think there's a pretty passionate debate among fans - whether season 3 or season 4 is the best. I prefer Season 3 by a margin, and I've converted several Enterprise skeptics by showing them the best Season 3 episodes. I too watch my DVDs more than I watch SyFy - but I know that the Season 3 episodes are best for converting new fans. If you can't be won over by Twilight, Similitude and The Forgotten - you're not paying attention.

This is true. My friend watched a season 3 Enterprise episode and they loved it. I think it was The Xindi or Azati Prime. But after the episode they asked "So what happens I want to know what happens with the Xindi!" And then they were disappointed because we told them this story lasts all season so they must watch it all.

:laugh: ¿:cool:

honeybee1111

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:28 pm

Quote
I agree season three is a lot of fun to watch.  I admit I am not a Twilight fan (do not like reset buttons), but Similitude and the Forgotten are awesome, as well as Damage IMO.


Oh but we agree on so much, DBear1 - LOL. I actually love reset buttons. Yesterday's Enterprise is my absolute, hands down favorite TNG episode. So, I like Twilight.

But, despite Twilight being at the top of most best of ENT lists, I still think Similitude is the best season 3 episode. It manages to be very SciFi in its premise, quite romantic and its got the whole moral dilemma that I love so much about Trek. Plus, it gives Trip/Sim, Archer, T'Pol and Phlox great scenes, and it's a pretty original story. Because its consequences resonate throughout the season, I think I prefer Similitude over Twilight, which is flawed in that no one remembers it.

And Damage is a great episode.

I also think the one where Archer pulls an "Eastern Promises" on Degra by pretending they are escaped cell mates is excellent. I don't think that episode gets enough love.

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 9:57 pm

Oh there is no problem you liking Twilight and me not we all have our favorites, my guilty little secret is I actually like Northern Star and many people hate that episode.  I just viewed at as one of those fun episodes that do not have some greater message, but are still fun.

All our taste differ, it is what makes talking on these boards fun as long as someone does not get fanatic about it.

honeybee1111

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 10:10 pm

Absolutely, Dbear1. It's all good. I was just teasing.

And for the record, I liked North Star. It wasn't my favorite, but Season 3 was filled with dark episodes, but that one was relatively light and I think it really hit the tone of TOS while feeling fresh as well. It was an old-fashioned Western-in space complete with showdown on Main Street. I think its critics take it way too seriously. And SB does really well in the Western milieu - Archer seems to fit right in.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 10:17 pm

Similitude goes so far beyond...I don't think I've ever gotten over that one moment:

SIM: You're not a murderer.
ARCHER: Don't make me one.

SO much to be considered underneath those words--TOO much! Maybe I just haven't had the opportunity to talk it out of my system yet...

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 10:23 pm

Quote (grigori @ Dec. 11 2009, 10:17 pm)
Similitude goes so far beyond...I don't think I've ever gotten over that one moment:

SIM: You're not a murderer.
ARCHER: Don't make me one.

SO much to be considered underneath those words--TOO much! Maybe I just haven't had the opportunity to talk it out of my system yet...

I think that scene was to highlight how SIM was a bit different then Trip, Trip we know would sacrifice his life for his ship and friends, but SIM was not there yet.  

Not saying SIM was a bad guy, he was not, but he was likely wondering why he had to make the ultimate sacrifice for what he considered himself.

That ethical question and the emotion by the four main characters I think is what makes that episode outstanding.

grigori

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 10:28 pm

Quote (Dbear1 @ Dec. 11 2009, 10:23 pm)
Quote (grigori @ Dec. 11 2009, 10:17 pm)
Similitude goes so far beyond...I don't think I've ever gotten over that one moment:

SIM: You're not a murderer.
ARCHER: Don't make me one.

SO much to be considered underneath those words--TOO much! Maybe I just haven't had the opportunity to talk it out of my system yet...

I think that scene was to highlight how SIM was a bit different then Trip, Trip we know would sacrifice his life for his ship and friends, but SIM was not there yet. ?

The irony being, no one ELSE was willing to let Trip die, here, though his time had sort of come.

One moment Sim is like a child, but just like we've been discussing in the Congenitor thread, the crew had already decided the bigger picture requires the sacrifice of an innocent, an action none of them would dream of taking otherwise.

We know Archer doesn't want to lose Trip, either, but that so clearly doesn't even factor in.

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 11 2009, 10:36 pm

Well SIM grew into an adult and eventually realized that for the mission to be accomplished Trip was needed.  It was just tough for him to grasp why at first.  SIM started sharing more and more of Trips memories and emotions and the memory of his sister is what eventually allowed him to make that sacrifice.

Archer obviously did not want this to happen, when he order the clone he thought the operation would not kill it, unfortunately something unforeseen happened and it stuck him with a nasty ethical choice.

The fact that this had no happy ending is what I think made this such a powerful episode, only one I think comes close with a somewhat similar story line is Tuvik in Voyager.

honeybee1111

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Report this Dec. 12 2009, 9:35 am

Quote
Not saying SIM was a bad guy, he was not, but he was likely wondering why he had to make the ultimate sacrifice for what he considered himself.

That ethical question and the emotion by the four main characters I think is what makes that episode outstanding.


Absolutely. I've read a lot of discussions about just how "Trip" Sim actually is. I've settled on Sim not being actually Trip, but with his memories and body he is essentially Trip and eventually does what Trip would have done, sacrifice himself for the greater good. We later see Trip very casually asserting this character trait in Doctor's Orders, but even before that, it seems like something Trip would do.

But one key difference between Trip and Sim is that Sim has known since he was a child that he was created for a specific purpose, to harvest that tissue. And by the time he's a grown adult, he's exploring his own identity, as adults do, and trying to forge a life, albeit a short one, outside that purpose. Nobody knew that his life would be forfeit, and when that fact emerges, Sim reacts like most sentient beings would - he resists and asserts that his life is valuable, despite the shortness of it. It takes time, but he eventually proves that he, like Trip, would sacrifice for the greater good. He also decides, whether we believe it or not, that he is Trip and that Elizabeth was his sister, which makes the decision even more powerful.

One of the other things I love about this episode is that T'Pol, who at this point has a close friendship and attraction to Trip that may or may not be something more, resists the creation of Sim from the beginning. She recognizes the larger, ethical picture outside of the mission and her own personal desires.

But its episodes like this that make me a SciFi fan. It's something only this genre can do.

Dbear1

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Report this Dec. 12 2009, 10:19 am

Good outline HB, in my opinion the writers wanted to show that although Trip and SIM shared memories, emotions and looked alike, they were really two different individuals.  We know that Trip would have been willing to sacrifice himself, but SIM had to work to that decision slowly and had to grasp why he should sacrifice himself.

As for TPol, it was clear that she was upset when she found out Trip was injured, but you are right she felt she had to bring up the ethical argument with Archer about creating a living being to farm body parts from.  

We are faced with those same questions today even, with the concept of cloning in its early stages and even examples of parents having another child to be a donor for their first child.  At what point does these issues cross the line into some futuristic nightmare.

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