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new ST movie - canon or not?

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 02 2010, 11:29 am

Quote (Vold @ Jan. 02 2010, 11:11 am)
I didn't say u said there was a problem, I was refering to the issue where people said there's a problem.

Ahhh

ItalianTiberius24

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Report this Jan. 02 2010, 9:28 pm

Quote (stovokor2000 @ Jan. 02 2010, 12:30 am)
Quote (ItalianTiberius24 @ Jan. 02 2010, 12:22 am)
thats not true because if you look at the uss kelvin its even more sophisticated than tng ships and looks nothing like the ships of the era....its a complete alternate universe and no its not covered in the film , atleast not very well....the movie sucks and there's no difference btw transformers/gi joe and the new star trek movie plain and simple

Sorry but thats wrong.

How a ship or any of the tech we see in a film ?"looks" is not an indication of how sophisticated it is.

Simply put, how it all "looks" is a mater of perspective which is open to the interpretations or each individual.

What maters is how the Kelvin preformed and or functioned.

And in that regard, no it was not more sophisticated then TNG era ships.

Further more, we were never shown a ship from the Kelvins era before from a canon source.

im sorry but your so wrong and in no way can that 250 million dollar eye candy opening scene be opened to interpretation...the ships are of a higher technology than anything weve seen in star trek no matter how much you close your eyes and try to make believe it isnt....at no point in any star trek so far did the ships have holographic, touch screen panels, you wouldnt put the uss kelvin side by side with tng or tos enterprise and say the tos/tng ships came after the uss kelvin it just doesnt make sense...its a parallel universe and the makers of the film have said as much....all jar jar abrahams would of had to do to make it an alternate timeline was to make the uss kelvin somewhere closer to the tos style ships but no he couldnt even do that....then he could of went buck wild with all the special effects his little heart desired....but thats a jar jar for you

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 02 2010, 11:18 pm

Quote (ItalianTiberius24 @ Jan. 02 2010, 9:28 pm)
im sorry but your so wrong and in no way can that 250 million dollar eye candy opening scene be opened to interpretation...the ships are of a higher technology than anything weve seen in star trek no matter how much you close your eyes and try to make believe it isnt....

I'm sorry but your so very wrong.

The very same argument was made when "Enterprise" first premiered.It failed then just as its failing now.

There was nothing about Archers Enterprise that was more sophisticated in function then the Enterprise of TOS and theres nothing about the Kelvin that was more sophisticated then other Trek ships.

Quote
you wouldnt put the uss kelvin side by side with tng or tos enterprise and say the tos/tng ships came after the uss kelvin it just doesnt make sense...


Again thats a mater of perspective.

Not every progression in technology "looks" like an improvement.

What looks like an improvement to you may look different to others.

And in my opinion the Kelvin looks less advanced then the Enterprise D.

And it doesnt look thatr much more advanced then the NX class ships.

So really, it only looks slightly more advanced then the TOS original Enterprise.And even that is open to interpretation.

Again what maters is not the "look" but the function.

Unless your telling me you expect the film makers to revert to the levels of film making of the 60's.

Otherwise you have to expect for things to "look" better since the levels of special effects have improved.

Quote
its a parallel universe and the makers of the film have said as much....


Actually what was said was that a Parallel universe was created when the Kelvin was destroyed.

Which means, it was the same universe at the start of the film.

Maybe you should pay more attention to whats said before you try to repeated it.

DaDeuceIsLoose

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Report this Jan. 04 2010, 11:18 am

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 04 2010, 9:46 am)
:logical:

You can go farther than that and say the time-line was changed just by the readings taken from the "electronic storm"

:p  :laugh:

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 04 2010, 3:15 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 04 2010, 10:46 am)
:logical:

Well thats what I ment.

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 2:10 pm

Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 12:35 pm)
Maybe sooner than the Narada's arrival. ¿After all the crew of the Kelvin didn't think Nero and his people were Vulcan, so they had some experience or knowledge of the Romulan people to a greater than known at the time of the TOS's "Balance of Terror". ¿ So something happened further back to bone with the Earth/Romulan War to change how that played out. ¿So something between the End of Enterprise and STXI (2233 IRC). ¿

Now given the fact that the blackhole was seemed to be temporal in nature, who knows how far back the changes go.

There is abstrusely no indication what so ever what the crew of the Kelvin thought about Nero and his people.

Yes, they dont mention anything on screan but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

In short, they may not have had the time to mention anything.

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 3:46 pm

Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 2:55 pm)
True. ¿But given that there wasn't a "WTH! Vulcans!" moment, I tend to think that things didn't play out in the past as we "know" they did.

And I think there was such a moment.

Just look at the faces of the Kelvins captain and crew when the Romulan appeared on screen.

They all had a look like "holy sh1+" on their faces.

Quote
The whole "It's the same timeline up to 2233" thing is just a bit to much hand waving over the issue and the producers/writers wanting to eat their cake and have it to.


Well your welcome to your opinion on that, and I mean no offence, but I've heard many make that claim, but none cant provide and sold reasons as to why.

The biggest arguments is how advanced the Kelvin "LOOKED" and that argument is not logical.

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 4:06 pm

Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:54 pm)
1) Which as easily can be easily explained as them wondering what was up with the Romulans having a super ship.

If that were the case I dont think they would have been looking at each other with such looks their faces.

Seeing an enemy in a super advanced ship may have inspired looks of awe and surprise......but directed mostly at what they are seeing.

But the looks on the Kelvins crew looked more like the look someone has when they walk in on their girl friends in the arms of an other man.

It looked like they were all hit with a personal blow......and how they all looked at each other after wards pretty much resonated with that type of feeling.

Quote
2) The Kelvin's look doesn't bother.  A couple of things here and there aside, it really doesn't seem that "advanced" to me.  Anyone completely about that side, would have to be expecting the old stryofoam rocks and carboard consoles.   Nah my issue is the writers trying to hand-wave everything using the whole "alternate timeline" deal.  Just commit to calling it a reboot and stop pretending that it's anything but.


So your problem is simply you dont like what they did.....not that it didnt make sence????

well that I could understand.

After all, not everyone likes hamburgers

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 7:06 pm

> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 05 2010, 4:04 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:54 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (stovokor2000 @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:46 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 2:55 pm)> id="QUOTE">True. ?But given that there wasn't a "WTH! Vulcans!" moment, I tend to think that things didn't play out in the past as we "know" they did.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 4:16 pm)

And I think there was such a moment.

Just look at the faces of the Kelvins captain and crew when the Romulan appeared on screen.

They all had a look like "holy sh1+" on their faces.

:logical:

Actually we don't know how far they're willing to take the reboot. ¿After all, we only know for 100% from 2233 forward. ¿We don't know for sure that they aren't going to back up and overwrite events prior to that. ¿We had a passing reference to Archer's beagle, but that's not 100% conclusive that Enterprise played out the way we saw in the new timeline.

Take Khan -- the current lead contender for STXI, if you go with the rumor mill-- for an example: ¿ if they go that route they're going to likely overwrite a lot of that backstory seeings as parking the Eugenics War in the 90s isn't going to work anymore.
It still might work.

Its not like they changed that info after the 90's came and went with out incedent.

stovokor2000

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Report this Jan. 05 2010, 10:00 pm

> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (stovokor2000 @ Jan. 05 2010, 7:06 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 4:16 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (starbase63 @ Jan. 05 2010, 4:04 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:54 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (stovokor2000 @ Jan. 05 2010, 3:46 pm)> id="QUOTE"> border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 2:55 pm)> id="QUOTE">True. ?But given that there wasn't a "WTH! Vulcans!" moment, I tend to think that things didn't play out in the past as we "know" they did.
border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">>>Quote (SeerSGB @ Jan. 05 2010, 7:21 pm)

And I think there was such a moment.

Just look at the faces of the Kelvins captain and crew when the Romulan appeared on screen.

They all had a look like "holy sh1+" on their faces.

:logical:
Actually we don't know how far they're willing to take the reboot. ?After all, we only know for 100% from 2233 forward. ?We don't know for sure that they aren't going to back up and overwrite events prior to that. ?We had a passing reference to Archer's beagle, but that's not 100% conclusive that Enterprise played out the way we saw in the new timeline.

Take Khan -- the current lead contender for STXI, if you go with the rumor mill-- for an example: ? if they go that route they're going to likely overwrite a lot of that backstory seeings as parking the Eugenics War in the 90s isn't going to work anymore.
It still might work.

Its not like they changed that info after the 90's came and went with out incedent.
Except for DS9 which put the Eugenics War 200 years later somewhere in the 22nd century-- leaving Enterprise to fix the date, again. ¿And Voyager completely ignoring the issue when they went back in time to what would have been the height of the war.
Which was 1 mistake admitted to by the DS9 writting staff,.

And Voyage only visited LA if I'm right....so its not really shock thast there wasnt any evidence of the war.

And Enterprise did correct the issue when they made their contribution to the Eugenics story line.

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