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Seen ST XI for a third time.


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Report this Dec. 04 2009, 12:15 pm

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Dec. 04 2009, 8:57 am)
And in fact, I just want to say one more thing (like I've not waffled enough in this thread as it is :laugh: )

Right now, I'm on this huge learning curve about everything to do with Star Trek. The more I watch, and the more I read, and the more I debate with people on here, my thoughts and opinions are growing and developing and changing all the time.

Now I realise that this might make me seem a bit inconsistent at times, but quite regularly, comments that people are making are causing me to look at things in a whole different way...a way that might not have occured to me previously because of my limited knowledge of the Trek-verse, or whatever.
If this causes me to change my mind about something then I'll be the first to admit it.

In six months from now, I'll probably have a different outlook on pretty much everything Trek-related. But for me, that's all part of the fun and part of the experience.

However, as you'll all have noticed by now, I like to talk (and talk...and talk... ) and a lot of the time it's just a pure stream-of-consciousness kind of thing. I hardly ever know what I'm going to say about something until someone here asks me about it, and then I just decide as I'm going along.

I really have learned SO much, and I know I'll learn so much more...and in the meantime I'll refine and probably change my thoughts and opinions as much as the weather changes!

But hey...I'm a woman, it's our prerogative ;)

That's all part of becoming a good TREK fan. In do time you will see TREKXI  as I do: the 3rd generation of TREK, it's not TOS it's a new breed of TREK.


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Report this Dec. 04 2009, 1:30 pm

Nothing "went wrong" with XI.


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Report this Dec. 04 2009, 2:22 pm

Whenever I watch any Trek movies, series, whatever, I am ALWAYS struck by the quality of the production and how most modern TV and a good deal of cinema output doesn't come anywhere near it.
As for whether anything was wrong with XI, that depends on who you are...or who I am.
Think it's called subjectivity.


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Report this Dec. 04 2009, 11:30 pm

Quote (Vger23 @ Dec. 04 2009, 10:41 am)
Quote (lostshaker @ Dec. 04 2009, 12:12 am)
Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Dec. 03 2009, 8:28 pm)
Try and imagine yourself in my shoes. Imagine seeing STXI, and then seeing TOS, and then seeing TMP and TWOK. Do you not think that TOS, TMP and TWOK would kind of blow STXI out of the water if you'd seen that one first?

I honestly think that if I'd been familiar with all of those before I saw STXI then I'd have viewed it differently (and more favourably).

MrsStarbuck, seeing TOS, TMP, and TWOK first may not have necessarily helped you. I watched all of those first and everything else for over 2 decades, and I despise Abrams' movie.

Anyone who "despises" two hours of film needs to seriously look at themselves in the mirror.

Life is too short.

Really, it is.

I'm passionate about films. But like I have noted previously, I gave a standing applause when Quinto lost Ryder and Vulcan dived into the black hole.

And I have reevaluated my perspective on Nero.


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Report this Dec. 05 2009, 12:02 am

Quote (Somniac @ Nov. 30 2009, 6:32 am)
Having watched it again, I twigged the problem.
The very last scene where the crew assemble on the bridge in their recognisable uniforms would have made a perfect lead in to ST TOS. Presumably as it is meant to do.
The problem is, everything that comes before, doesn't.
It's as if an ending has been tagged on from a different film.
Suddenly they find their characters after rolling around looking for them for the previous 2 hours.
If the timeline has changed the characters, then why have this scene resemble the OS so closely?
It makes everything that has gone before seem even more incongruous.
It is a lack of continuity even within the film itself that ultimately lets it down.

It's called being drawn together by their Destiny or simply a greater force. No matter what happens to try and pull them apart they still rise above it, knowingly or not, and come together. I really saw no problems with the ending. I thought the way they ended it was great and I have been a long time Star Trek fan since TOS as it sounds like you may have been.


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Report this Dec. 05 2009, 1:30 am

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Nov. 30 2009, 9:55 am)
What went wrong, and totally spoiled that whole film, which would at least have been an entertaining Sci-Fi film (it has nothing of TREK to justify the name IMHO) is:

They made a kid in the 6th semester the captain of Starfleet's most advanced starship.

Just like that. For no specific reason.

STAR TREK has been far stretched at times, but that was just so over the top, it made the movie almost a (T)RAUMSCHIFF SURPRISE sequel for me:

There were plenty of reasons. First off, Pike mentions that the instinct to leap without looking is something Kirks father had but Star Fleet has lost. In my opinion that has been true with TNG. TNG became too politically correct and bland at times. Pike also Dares Kirk to do better than his father.

Later on with the crisis with Vulcan, Kirk does not back down when trying to warn Pike that they are warping in to a trap. He has the nerve to face him and Spock head on. Captain Pike promotes him to first office seeing that Kirk has a quality that most don't have. Kirk may not even realize it yet.

Even farther along, Kirk does not back down when facing Spock. He knows that if they don't try and do something, no matter what the odds, that the Earth is going to be destroyed.

He could have given up then and there but he fights his way back to the Enterprise to try and save the Earth. He ends up taking command, setting a new course towards Earth. "Either they are going down or we are". The Enterprise and crew under Kirks command saves the planet.

Back on Earth Kirk is awarded; "your inspirational valor and supreme dedication to your comrades is in keeping with the highest traditions of service and reflects upmost credit to yourself, your crew, and the Federation...". Notice that they stick them together as a team in the end as well since they worked well together. Now he is officially assigned the position of Captain of the Enterprise and probably at the recommendation of Pike as well. And really, would you rather have someone in the captains chair who simply lets the earth get destroyed because logically they don't have a chance?

Kirk, who started out as a good kid but ends up becoming a rebel without a cause due to his family situation, finds new purpose in life which ends up bringing out his best including leadership qualities and leading him to a higher cause. I have no problem with that at all.

There was a reason he was Assigned to the Enterprise as Captain. This movie is not that hard to figure out.


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Report this Dec. 05 2009, 8:02 am

Quote (Yanks @ Dec. 04 2009, 1:15 am)
Thanks MrsStarbuck, I don't think I had heard a review from someone that hadn't seen and loved TOS. Kind of different take I think.

Now, that you've seen all of TOS, has your view changed? Do you like the movie better? HAve you seen it again after watching TOS?

Here's my review BTW. Clicky...

Nice review Yanks. I agree with you that the most successful thing about this film was the casting, and that the whole thing was really just a vehicle to (re) introduce these characters. And from that point of view I agree that it worked.

I found this comment interesting:
the story was pretty weak I thought, especially if you hadn't read Countdown beforehand

I've heard quite a bit about this Countdown comic, but must confess that I haven't read it, and I am a big believer that a film should be self-contained enough to make sense to everyone, not just those who have done their homework.
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with having additional material to enhance the film, but I believe there were some important things to do with Nero in the comic? I wonder if I'd read it, whether I'd have liked him more.

As for how my opinion has been changed by seeing TOS...I don't know whether it has been changed that much. Rather, it's made me look at the film in a deeper way, and possibly construct higher expectations after the fact. Things that didn't bother me when I first saw STXI, bother me a lot more now that I've seen TOS.

I guess the real test for me will be how much I enjoy STXII, because I'll be approaching that with the same TOS background knowledge as the rest of you (more or less)


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Report this Dec. 05 2009, 1:49 pm

As a long time Trek Fan, Since I was a kid watching TOS, I really liked this movie. But, as a long time Trek fan I do come to it with certain expectations so some things seemed odd. If I was looking at this movie from a "never had enjoyed Star Trek" point of view then those oddities would not have been there.

One of the things that struck me the most was the view screen. The concept of having it be a windows was really weird to me but that's only because I've been a long time Trek fan. At first I thought they had got that wrong but a lot of movies use a window on their space craft and it has never bothered me before until now. I have grown to like the window approach although I would like to see it have a better quality picture. The bridge always seemed very vulnerable to me sitting up there on the top of the ship. The window kind of made it seem even more vulnerable.

One thing I hope changes for the next film is Scotty's sidekick. I think he needs to die in a transporter accident. At the end, where Scotty is reporting to the Captain before they are ready to leave on their first official voyage together, they have a great classic dialog between Kirk and Scotty but then they pan to that creature and at that point the scene is destroyed. Maybe this is my expectation of Scotty's character based on TOS but I could have really done without that. I never did like all the strange creatures in Star Wars. Some were good but cutesy aliens just to have aliens seems phony to me. Then to bring that to Star Trek, I just did not like it. But again, some, like the guy at the bar, were great. Even though this is supposed to be a different timeline, I think they should realize that in the end, people expect Kirk, Spock and Crew to at least develop in to the characters they were in TOS. They do that with all of the characters for the most part except for Scotty, they undermined that development with his sidekick.

I thought Nero was a great character. He is overwhelmed with vengeance. They give you just enough to make you feel sorry for him but in the end you are glad to see him destroyed by the Enterprise.

Sulu. I liked Sulu and especially the nod to TOS with the fencing line. Although they were sword fighting it still works for me.

I'm glad they gave Chekov some brains. In TOS I always had to wonder how he even got on the bridge in the first place. In this movie they portray him more like a very young genius. Good job!

My favorite character would have to be Dr McCoy in this movie. Great job! And the relationship between him and Kirk was done very well!

Spock. His emotions come through in this movie but they really do a good job of presenting the battle of logic versus emotion that goes on inside him. Kirk and Spock fit together well in this movie and in the end become a team. Spock can now rely on Kirks emotional side while Kirk can now rely on Spock's logical side.

Uhura, stop slobbering all over Spock! Really! Get a room!

Kirk, I like how they did Kirk. See my post above.

Overall I enjoyed the movie and I look forward to watching these characters grow.

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