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How should Kirk have died?

slehman805

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POSTS: 219

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 2:41 pm

In Star Trek Generations Kirk died saving billions of lives but would you have rather seen him die sitting in the chair?

In the new Star Trek movie Kirks father dies in command saving the lives of those under his command including his wife. ¿Would something similar to this have been a better ending for Kirk in Generations?

slehman805

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POSTS: 219

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 2:45 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 24 2009, 2:43 pm)
Exactly the way he did was fine.

And you exaggerate somewhat...George Kirk saved 800 lives according to Captain Pike...not billions.

:logical:

ooops  you are correct.  But he still died a hero

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 2:51 pm

Wasn't this exact same topic and poll posted just under 2 weeks ago?

slehman805

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POSTS: 219

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 2:55 pm

Quote (Vger23 @ Nov. 24 2009, 2:51 pm)
Wasn't this exact same topic and poll posted just under 2 weeks ago?

Sorry.  I've only been here a week or so.

slehman805

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POSTS: 219

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 2:57 pm

I corrected my original post

Unregistered_Guest

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Report this Nov. 24 2009, 3:30 pm

^  I 'm not sure.  I have to admit that going from "captain on the bridge" to "bridge on the captain" was indeed ironic.

Kirk_vs_Kahn

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POSTS: 319

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 3:35 pm

Not the way he did. He deserved a better death. In the film, his death should've been made a bugger deal, instead of Picard just burying him under a few rocks and then no big mention of his with Picards crew.

Hell, really, Kirk should have been interacting with the whole crew. Instead, GEN ends up feeling like a gimmick.

Kirk_vs_Kahn

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POSTS: 319

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 3:47 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:41 pm)
Quote (Kirk_vs_Kahn @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:35 pm)
Not the way he did. He deserved a better death. In the film, his death should've been made a bugger deal, instead of Picard just burying him under a few rocks and then no big mention of his with Picards crew.

Hell, really, Kirk should have been interacting with the whole crew. Instead, GEN ends up feeling like a gimmick.

Why should Kirk's death been a "bigger deal"?

It's not like heroes choose they way they die.

And they didn't have time (either in-story or scriptwise) for Kirk to go to the Enterprise and meet all of Picard's crew.

:logical:

SB, IMO, they should have either put some time and effort into the film, or abandoned the idea of Kirks death with the way it turned out. Even the writers admit to making a boo boo with this.

I know heroes dont choose there death. But blimey, it was underwhelming. When i first watched it, i was upset. My hero had died. But after repeated viewings, I resent the way it played out. It was like 'Ok, he's dead, now lets go'. Spocks death was truly emotional and well played out. Kirk, IMO, deserved something equal.

But hey, we can't change the past... but we can have an alternate :D

Narada

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POSTS: 4010

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 3:49 pm

The death of Kirk is not as much a problem for me but that he is fooled by the Nexus. This seems against his character and I do not like to see this happen in the end. Yes it is the theme of the movie but I do not like it for his character.

The writers seemed determine to kill the character of Kirk whether Shatner was in the movie or not. This is not so much a problem. But they were probably motivated to finalize the changing of the guard with the Next Generation crew. Some fans wish for a more heroic death for Kirk. I do not mind how he died but sure it can be better. I see value in this death because Spock and Bones are not with him and he dies just like he says before. His last words also indicate maybe there is an unknown to explore with death and the after life.

Kirk_vs_Kahn

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POSTS: 319

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 3:52 pm

Quote (Narada @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:49 pm)
The death of Kirk is not as much a problem for me but that he is fooled by the Nexus. This seems against his character and I do not like to see this happen in the end. Yes it is the theme of the movie but I do not like it for his character.

The writers seemed determine to kill the character of Kirk whether Shatner was in the movie or not. This is not so much a problem. But they were probably motivated to finalize the changing of the guard with the Next Generation crew. Some fans wish for a more heroic death for Kirk. I do not mind how he died but sure it can be better. I see value in this death because Spock and Bones are not with him and he dies just like he says before. His last words also indicate maybe there is an unknown to explore with death and the after life.

That's what it felt like. Get Kirk in then get him out. But, to be fair, the writers have come out and said they didn't do him justice. And I respect them for even saying that.

Even Shatner regrets it. I think both in the way he died and the fact he will no longer portray the character on screen.

I know he said he'd die alone. But I took that as he wouldn't have his friends by him. The ones he cared for.

But as I said, it's done. Move on. Now that we have Kirk and crew back... alternate or not :D

Kirk_vs_Kahn

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POSTS: 319

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 4:03 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:55 pm)
Quote (Kirk_vs_Kahn @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:47 pm)
Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:41 pm)
Quote (Kirk_vs_Kahn @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:35 pm)
Not the way he did. He deserved a better death. In the film, his death should've been made a bugger deal, instead of Picard just burying him under a few rocks and then no big mention of his with Picards crew.

Hell, really, Kirk should have been interacting with the whole crew. Instead, GEN ends up feeling like a gimmick.

Why should Kirk's death been a "bigger deal"?

It's not like heroes choose they way they die.

And they didn't have time (either in-story or scriptwise) for Kirk to go to the Enterprise and meet all of Picard's crew.

:logical:

SB, IMO, they should have either put some time and effort into the film, or abandoned the idea of Kirks death with the way it turned out. Even the writers admit to making a boo boo with this.

I know heroes dont choose there death. But blimey, it was underwhelming. When i first watched it, i was upset. My hero had died. But after repeated viewings, I resent the way it played out. It was like 'Ok, he's dead, now lets go'. Spocks death was truly emotional and well played out. Kirk, IMO, deserved something equal.

But hey, we can't change the past... but we can have an alternate :D

Kirk is my hero too, second only to Spock.

But like I said in the other thread:

Kirk died doing what he did all his life...

He did his duty as a Starfleet officer...

He saved billions of lives...

He protected the safety of the Federation...

He saved the crews of two Starships Enterprise...neither of which were his...

What was so wrong about that?

James T. Kirk died a hero.

:logical:

It was the execution. Compare the deaths of Kirk and Spock. Yes, both died heroes, but to me, I can still now view the death of Spock and still tear up, and view the death of Kirk and just be disappointed.

It was down to how the film and death where executed. You made the points, and correct ones too, but the execution, IMO, was poor.

And this means nothing, as people have varied opinions, but even the writers admit to making a boo boo with this (I'm sorry to keep mentioning it lol).

Narada

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POSTS: 4010

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 4:09 pm

Quote (Kirk_vs_Kahn @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:52 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:49 pm)
The death of Kirk is not as much a problem for me but that he is fooled by the Nexus. This seems against his character and I do not like to see this happen in the end. Yes it is the theme of the movie but I do not like it for his character.

The writers seemed determine to kill the character of Kirk whether Shatner was in the movie or not. This is not so much a problem. But they were probably motivated to finalize the changing of the guard with the Next Generation crew. Some fans wish for a more heroic death for Kirk. I do not mind how he died but sure it can be better. I see value in this death because Spock and Bones are not with him and he dies just like he says before. His last words also indicate maybe there is an unknown to explore with death and the after life.

That's what it felt like. Get Kirk in then get him out. But, to be fair, the writers have come out and said they didn't do him justice. And I respect them for even saying that.

Even Shatner regrets it. I think both in the way he died and the fact he will no longer portray the character on screen.

I know he said he'd die alone. But I took that as he wouldn't have his friends by him. The ones he cared for.

But as I said, it's done. Move on. Now that we have Kirk and crew back... alternate or not :D

Yes I also feel this way. The character of Kirk suffered from this movie concept as indicated by many. Yes I agree he made his "die alone" comment and he said this to Bones and Spock. I agree that it means he will not have his friends by him which means when he dies they will not be there to save him. This is one of the only things I like with the death of Kirk because Bones and Spock were not in this movie to save him.

Most of all I agree with your "move on" comment. Sometimes people can get hung up with what happened in a Star Trek story and it seems they never recover. This is another reason I like the new movie in relation to the death of Kirk. It was a clever way to bring back Kirk and the other characters who cannot be played by the original actors anymore. I did not want to see Kirk revived like another Spock story and the new movie uses an effective approach to bring them all back.

slehman805

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 219

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 4:15 pm

Quote (Unregistered_Guest @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:30 pm)
^ ¿I 'm not sure. ¿I have to admit that going from "captain on the bridge" to "bridge on the captain" was indeed ironic.

Funny :-) I never looked at it that way. Good point

Kirk_vs_Kahn

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POSTS: 319

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 4:17 pm

Quote (Unregistered_Guest @ Nov. 24 2009, 3:30 pm)
^ ¿I 'm not sure. ¿I have to admit that going from "captain on the bridge" to "bridge on the captain" was indeed ironic.

Well, I hate to say it, but... that's funny :D

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 24 2009, 4:20 pm

I've said it many times...Kirk's death was just fine. I'm glad it wasn't some cliched, overdone "hero's death." It was done with a quiet dignity and respect, and Kirk's last words "It was...fun.....oh my..." were perfect for that character.

Would I personally have scripted it out that way? No, I probably would not have...but I have no problem with the direction the writers took it in.

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