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What Happens To In A Mirror Darkly

TrekFan1701E

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POSTS: 14979

Report this Nov. 20 2009, 6:57 pm

What will happen to the U.S.S. Defiant now that the Enterprise has been upgraded in the new timeline? Would the Defiant still go through that rift in space? Will their be other ships like Enterprise that is in the new movie?

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 20 2009, 7:13 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 20 2009, 4:01 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 20 2009, 6:57 pm)
What will happen to the U.S.S. Defiant now that the Enterprise has been upgraded in the new timeline? Would the Defiant still go through that rift in space? Will their be other ships like Enterprise that is in the new movie?

Nothing. It's already happened. Just as FC and George and Gracie getting snatched in TVH.

Now, is Data's head still in that cave?

:laugh:

No.....  ;)

honeybee1111

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POSTS: 880

Report this Nov. 20 2009, 7:17 pm

Let us not forget the future that showed Data teaching at Oxford - oh, I guess that must have been the OTHER Data. B4. LOL.

Suspension of disbelieve is the way to go. Just roll with it and enjoy. I do love those mirror episodes.

TrekFan1701E

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14979

Report this Nov. 20 2009, 9:09 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 20 2009, 7:01 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 20 2009, 6:57 pm)
What will happen to the U.S.S. Defiant now that the Enterprise has been upgraded in the new timeline? Would the Defiant still go through that rift in space? Will their be other ships like Enterprise that is in the new movie?

Nothing. It's already happened. Just as FC and George and Gracie getting snatched in TVH.

Now, is Data's head still in that cave?

:laugh:

You forget the timline changed after Enterprise everything else after Enterprise is different. We don't know if DS9 and the Dominion War or Voyager getting lost happened. We don't know if any of the TOS and TNG Movies happened in the same way.

BrotherofShran01

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POSTS: 23344

Report this Nov. 20 2009, 9:14 pm

One thing is for sure, the Doomsday Machine is coming...

TrekFan1701E

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POSTS: 14979

Report this Nov. 20 2009, 9:40 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 20 2009, 9:26 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 20 2009, 9:09 pm)
Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 20 2009, 7:01 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 20 2009, 6:57 pm)
What will happen to the U.S.S. Defiant now that the Enterprise has been upgraded in the new timeline? Would the Defiant still go through that rift in space? Will their be other ships like Enterprise that is in the new movie?

Nothing. It's already happened. Just as FC and George and Gracie getting snatched in TVH.

Now, is Data's head still in that cave?

:laugh:

You forget the timline changed after Enterprise everything else after Enterprise is different. We don't know if DS9 and the Dominion War or Voyager getting lost happened. We don't know if any of the TOS and TNG Movies happened in the same way.

I forgot nothing major. Everything that happened before 2233 already happened. The STXI future is only changed after 2233.

If you say the differences in the future prevent what happened in the past, there is no Regeneration ENT episode, perhaps no photonic torpedoes or phase pistols because the Enterprise-D never went back. George and Gracie were caught by the whale ships.

Nope, the past was not effected...

Actually it was the Enterprise E that went back in time in the original timeline. We don't know if the Enterprise E went back in time either. So the Enterprise series timeline may have also been erased and the 22nd Century is also different. Maybe the Enterprise timeline happened but like you said they don't have advanced tech because the Enterprise E might not have gone back into time.

Narada

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POSTS: 4008

Report this Nov. 20 2009, 9:52 pm

Yes it will all depend on what you believe for the time line. It is very hard to know because no time travel theory is proven. But my take is that since prime Spock goes back in time that any time travel before the Kelvin destruction already took place. This means Picard and crew help Zefram and that the head of Data is in the cave from the past. Also that Kirk and crew found the Air Force pilot and many other scenarios. The problem here is if the future is changed then they will not time travel to the past so then the past is also changed. This is part of the problem of a singular time theory and what is called maintaining the integrity of the time line. It also relates to causality.

This is what is sometimes favorable about new quantum theories. I know they are not proven and some consider them as "fringe" theories but they solve the riddle of the paradox. I do not say this as a buzz word but it is a realistic dilemma which you touch upon. If everything happens in one singular time line this can cause problems because how can it work? If the new movie changes the time line then the future will be different. This means events will happen different and maybe in the future they will not travel into the past. Because of this we wonder if these time events happen in the past or not? It is very tricky.

This is why I like to view in a quantum theory scenario. It allows all this time travel to occur without a dilemma because with each time travel there would be a new reality. Basically each time travel would be like jumping to a new time line and there will be no causality problem.

ssmukhi

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POSTS: 65791

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 2:22 am

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 21 2009, 10:26 am)
I forgot nothing major. Everything that happened before 2233 already happened. The STXI future is only changed after 2233.

If you say the differences in the future prevent what happened in the past, there is no Regeneration ENT episode, perhaps no photonic torpedoes or phase pistols because the Enterprise-D never went back. George and Gracie were caught by the whale ships.

Nope, the past was not effected...

I have this strange feeling that the past before 2233 was changed as well.

In "Space Seed", McCoy clearly states that the Eugenics war took place from 1993 to 1996. I have no memory of this happening. Obviously Nero changed more than what we think.  :whatthe:

ssmukhi

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 65791

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 3:24 am

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 21 2009, 4:19 pm)
Quote (ssmukhi @ Nov. 21 2009, 2:22 am)
Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 21 2009, 10:26 am)
I forgot nothing major. Everything that happened before 2233 already happened. The STXI future is only changed after 2233.

If you say the differences in the future prevent what happened in the past, there is no Regeneration ENT episode, perhaps no photonic torpedoes or phase pistols because the Enterprise-D never went back. George and Gracie were caught by the whale ships.

Nope, the past was not effected...

I have this strange feeling that the past before 2233 was changed as well.

In "Space Seed", McCoy clearly states that the Eugenics war took place from 1993 to 1996. I have no memory of this happening. Obviously Nero changed more than what we think. ?:whatthe:

Did you get an early start on your Friday evening revelry, S?

;)

What about the Orbital Weapons that the US was supposed to be testing back in 1968, you know, the one that Gary Seven was supposed to have prevented.... There's no record of that too!

It's a PLOT!!!  :O

BrotherofShran01

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 23344

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 5:45 am

Quote (Narada @ Nov. 20 2009, 9:52 pm)
Yes it will all depend on what you believe for the time line. It is very hard to know because no time travel theory is proven. But my take is that since prime Spock goes back in time that any time travel before the Kelvin destruction already took place. This means Picard and crew help Zefram and that the head of Data is in the cave from the past. Also that Kirk and crew found the Air Force pilot and many other scenarios. The problem here is if the future is changed then they will not time travel to the past so then the past is also changed. This is part of the problem of a singular time theory and what is called maintaining the integrity of the time line. It also relates to causality.

This is what is sometimes favorable about new quantum theories. I know they are not proven and some consider them as "fringe" theories but they solve the riddle of the paradox. I do not say this as a buzz word but it is a realistic dilemma which you touch upon. If everything happens in one singular time line this can cause problems because how can it work? If the new movie changes the time line then the future will be different. This means events will happen different and maybe in the future they will not travel into the past. Because of this we wonder if these time events happen in the past or not? It is very tricky.

This is why I like to view in a quantum theory scenario. It allows all this time travel to occur without a dilemma because with each time travel there would be a new reality. Basically each time travel would be like jumping to a new time line and there will be no causality problem.

Sounds like the TV show Sliders

TrekFan1701E

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 14979

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 9:22 am

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 21 2009, 7:48 am)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 20 2009, 6:57 pm)
What will happen to the U.S.S. Defiant now that the Enterprise has been upgraded in the new timeline? Would the Defiant still go through that rift in space? Will their be other ships like Enterprise that is in the new movie?

Absolutely nothing happens.

Separate timelines, remember?

:logical:

The timeline splits after Enterprise. So if they have 12 Constitution Class ships like the new Enterprise, this is what Kirk said in the original timeline to that 20th Pilot that they met in Tommorow is Yesterday, Then wouldn't the new advanced sister ship, the Defiant go back into to the 22nd Century instead of the TOS version?

stovokor2000

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POSTS: 2683

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 10:09 am

Quote (honeybee1111 @ Nov. 20 2009, 7:17 pm)
Let us not forget the future that showed Data teaching at Oxford - oh, I guess that must have been the OTHER Data. B4. LOL.

Suspension of disbelieve is the way to go. Just roll with it and enjoy. I do love those mirror episodes.

That may have been a "fantasy world" created by Q.

sonofspock1

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POSTS: 6457

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 12:17 pm

Janeway was right. This is giving me a headache...

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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POSTS: 0

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 2:05 pm

Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 20 2009, 6:09 pm)

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 20 2009, 7:01 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 20 2009, 6:57 pm)
What will happen to the U.S.S. Defiant now that the Enterprise has been upgraded in the new timeline? Would the Defiant still go through that rift in space? Will their be other ships like Enterprise that is in the new movie?

Nothing. It's already happened. Just as FC and George and Gracie getting snatched in TVH.

Now, is Data's head still in that cave?

:laugh:

You forget the timline changed after Enterprise everything else after Enterprise is different. We don't know if DS9 and the Dominion War or Voyager getting lost happened. We don't know if any of the TOS and TNG Movies happened in the same way.

Actually we know it happened once, now with the new alteration(if indeed it has been altered) the proper question to ask is:

Will the Dominion War and Voyager get lost in the altered timeline?

Mind you I think it is an aternate timeline based loosely on the prime timeline, not an alteration of the prime timeline due to the fact that Spock prime continued to exist in the new timeline.

IF the timeline was changed Spock prime could not exist within it and we would be left with only nuSpock.

displacedvulcan

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POSTS: 5604

Report this Nov. 21 2009, 2:19 pm

Don't you guys remember the Relativity Episode of Voyager. They future has the power to alter the past so that events happen as they should and their own timeline is not affected.
Wikia Page for Relativity.
Youtube Episode.

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