Star Trek

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See TREKXI takes place BEFORE TOS, so the characters are bound to be different. I'm sure if you or i lost our father at such an early age we would be very different too.

Since we're supposedly dealing with the original characters it becomes contradictory to alter them, because then we aren't getting the original crew - defeating the purpose! And I never had a father or a step father physically around. Father was gone before I was born. I had uncles, but that was more peripheral influence. No male teacher until after the age of 12. Grew up with Kirk and Picard. As someone who didn't grow up with a father, there is no emotional connection because that person was never known - he never 'existed' for me. The same would be true for Kirk the jerk in that he never actually knew his father. If the father died at a point where Kirk the jerk had existing memories it might be another story. Now there are other circumstances dictating Kirk the jerk's character like his abusive uncle, but that creates other psychological issues that just separate this guy altogether from the genuine article. Unfortunately, I saw no qualities that made me care for this character.

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Maybe its quite possible the Kelvin actually used their shuttle craft. It doesn't have to look perfect to operate correctly.... I see you like making assumptions of the ships qualifications based on your opinions, not the facts at hand.

Hardly assumptions. It's based against evidence from the one and only true time line. The Shuttlecraft Magellan came under weapons fire and damaged at El-Adrel IV in "Darmok". Later seen in "The Outcast" fully repaired and looking good. The Hawking was damaged in "The Host", seen again in "Generations" looking good. Voyager's shuttlecraft Cochrance was heavily damaged in "Real Life". They stated the shuttle's hull had numerous fractures, but what do you know, it's seen again in "Day of Honor" looking great before it gets destroyed. Then, there's the Delta Flyer, takes damage on numerous occasions and always repaired with an excellent paint job to match. The Delta Flyer was even destroyed, then replaced with the Delta Flyer II. That's a dedicated crew that takes pride in their work and wants to represent the Federation clean shaven. The original point stands.

Does STXI work as a story for me? - Yes Is it fun for me nitpick this movie to pieces because it isn't exactly what I perceive as being ¿Star Trek? - No

As I said earlier, most of the problems arise from the shock of the new.

Remember when we went from pajamas to naval uniforms between TMP and TWOK? Remember when we went from TOS to TNG, how very different everything was? And now even after five series and 10 other movie all of which involved MAJOR changes (all of which upset someone or other) people still find it hard to reconcile the fact that it is the unfamiliarity that causes the reticence, the unwillingness to accept change.

Embrace it. Embrace the new actors, they are doing a GREAT job. Embrace the new Universe, it will allow for more adventures of Kirk, Spock and Bones. Embrace the pace of the new movie and soon enough it will not be overwhelming, but actually you will speed up to it's level and then be able to perceive the depth that is hidden in the noise.

Again I have to say that these new guys are NOT REPLACING ANYTHING...okay, we can all relax, TOS is not going anywhere, it's still there. These new guys are CONTINUING THE VOYAGERS, love them for that and don't compare them to what has gone before.

I have two sons, I love them both equally...imagine if when #2 came along I said: Well he's not #1 son so therefore he can't be as good as the original son...people would look at me funny and think I was a little inflexible and illogical wouldn't they?

The new Trek is just that NEW, don't fear it and don't go out of your way to find things that don't measure up.

As I said before, the more I watch it, the less my doubts become. And there is no disloyalty, there's enough Trek Love to go around.

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Nov. 21 2009, 8:42 pm)

Quote (Croatine @ Nov. 22 2009, 5:24 am) MG (or someone who watched the extras) - is that true, that JJ Abrams mentioned something about SW, something that he wanted to recreate some elements of SW atmosphere in the new Trek? Or is it an utter rubbish? I've heard this today from a colleague of mine, but I still have no time to see the extras . He was simply referring to pacing issues He wanted to create a movie with faster pacing than some other Star Trek movies. He was not dissing one or the other ¿

Very true. I got my movie and I watched the extras.

Quote (lostshaker @ Nov. 22 2009, 12:04 am)

Quote See TREKXI takes place BEFORE TOS, so the characters are bound to be different. I'm sure if you or i lost our father at such an early age we would be very different too. Since we're supposedly dealing with the original characters it becomes contradictory to alter them, because then we aren't getting the original crew - defeating the purpose! And I never had a father or a step father physically around. Father was gone before I was born. I had uncles, but that was more peripheral influence. No male teacher until after the age of 12. Grew up with Kirk and Picard. As someone who didn't grow up with a father, there is no emotional connection because that person was never known - he never 'existed' for me. The same would be true for Kirk the jerk in that he never actually knew his father. If the father died at a point where Kirk the jerk had existing memories it might be another story. Now there are other circumstances dictating Kirk the jerk's character like his abusive uncle, but that creates other psychological issues that just separate this guy altogether from the genuine article. Unfortunately, I saw no qualities that made me care for this character. Quote Maybe its quite possible the Kelvin actually used their shuttle craft. It doesn't have to look perfect to operate correctly.... I see you like making assumptions of the ships qualifications based on your opinions, not the facts at hand. Hardly assumptions. It's based against evidence from the one and only true time line. The Shuttlecraft Magellan came under weapons fire and damaged at El-Adrel IV in "Darmok". Later seen in "The Outcast" fully repaired and looking good. The Hawking was damaged in "The Host", seen again in "Generations" looking good. Voyager's shuttlecraft Cochrance was heavily damaged in "Real Life". They stated the shuttle's hull had numerous fractures, but what do you know, it's seen again in "Day of Honor" looking great before it gets destroyed. Then, there's the Delta Flyer, takes damage on numerous occasions and always repaired with an excellent paint job to match. The Delta Flyer was even destroyed, then replaced with the Delta Flyer II. That's a dedicated crew that takes pride in their work and wants to represent the Federation clean shaven. The original point stands.

All very good comments, the one thing to remember is that TREKXI is alternate timeline TREK so if its different it's not that big of a deal honestly.

I for one view TREK XI as TNG's version of TOS. Not a remake of TOS.

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 22 2009, 8:11 pm)

The younger Spock from The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before was very emotional. Even when saying, "Ah. One of your Earth emotions" while playing chess, Spock had a big grin on his face and there were no spores or travel back in time to cause him to revert to the historic emotions of his world's past. WNMHGB was in 2266. STXI ended in 2258, 8 years earlier. Spock was not yet the character we saw in later ST(TOS). The young Spock (nuSpock) in STXI was very believable and Quinto was amazing.

I wouldn't call it a big grin, but rather a discreet smile, but OK, I see your point . Actually, I'm not very fond of Spock from  WNMHGB, I think Nimoy still didn't get a grip on the character. But I quite like Spock from The Balance of Terror, even with his discreet smiles .

Yes, it's all very true, but I still say that there is a difference between emotional and plainly histerical,  (and revengeful).
Seeing their discreet flirt in Charlie X and The Man Trap, would you honestly believe that he could be ostentatiously groping Uhura in front of the crew, like in STXI (and yes, I remember this is Spock from alternate timeline)?

Quote (Croatine @ Nov. 23 2009, 2:35 pm)

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 22 2009, 8:11 pm) The younger Spock from The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before was very emotional. Even when saying, "Ah. One of your Earth emotions" while playing chess, Spock had a big grin on his face and there were no spores or travel back in time to cause him to revert to the historic emotions of his world's past. WNMHGB was in 2266. STXI ended in 2258, 8 years earlier. Spock was not yet the character we saw in later ST(TOS). The young Spock (nuSpock) in STXI was very believable and Quinto was amazing. I wouldn't call it a big grin, but rather a discreet smile, but OK, I see your point . Actually, I'm not very fond of Spock from ¿WNMHGB, I think Nimoy still didn't get a grip on the character. But I quite like Spock from The Balance of Terror, even with his discreet smiles . Yes, it's all very true, but I still say that there is a difference between emotional and plainly histerical, ¿(and revengeful). Seeing their discreet flirt in Charlie X and The Man Trap, would you honestly believe that he could be ostentatiously groping Uhura in front of the crew, like in STXI (and yes, I remember this is Spock from alternate timeline)?

In 'I am Spock' Nimoy himself places it at about halfway through 'The Corbomite Maneuver', when he got to first deliver the "Fascinating" line for the first time and Director Joseph Sargent's take on how it should be delivered; he says that that was the moment when he first really understood how to play Spock. (As you know even in some parts of CM he still isn't completely 'Spock' yet.

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Nov. 23 2009, 1:00 am)

In 'I am Spock' Nimoy himself places it at about halfway through 'The Corbomite Maneuver', when he got to first deliver the "Fascinating" line for the first time and Director Joseph Sargent's take on how it should be delivered; he says that that was the moment when he first really understood how to play Spock. (As you know even in some parts of CM he still isn't completely 'Spock' yet.

Yes! Actually, I find it fascinating how different it Spock from CM from the earlier Spock. Even if he's not 100% Spock we know, he is very close (although he looks quite amused in some scenes ).

Of course the James T Kirk we see in WNMHGB is exactly the same JTK we see in 'Turnabout Intruder'

Shatner was great in TOS. The infamous pauses sold the character, made him seem filled with energy. It was as if he was his own warp core, regulating the matter/antimatter reaction that propelled him into Kirk mode.

As for Nimoy in "The Cage"/WNMHGB/CM, etc... it's hard to hold emotions on Spock, because the character was in the ruff. The emotional context of the early episodes is a little too much of a literal interpretation for my taste since they were still trying to figure out the character. But it is on screen and so people are welcome to come to what interpretations they wish.

I always thought too that Spock actually had the upper hand on most Vulcans with regard to logic - because he was half human/half Vulcan - he chose logic and would have had to take it to its extreme. That's what I liked about TMP and the Kolinahr. He was so stoic in that movie, but yet it seemed to be a turning point for him as well - like a mid life crisis for humans almost, only taken to the Vulcan extreme; because at the end of TMP and onward he started showing those traits that he described to Picard in "Unification" about his ability to go beyond logic.

I did not yet read this thread but I will say the new movie has an Original Series feel but it also feels very new.

 

Quote (Narada @ Nov. 23 2009, 5:23 pm)

I did not yet read this thread but I will say the new movie has an Original Series feel but it also feels very new.

Absolutely.

That film doesn't have a TOS feel to it. For instance, the Enterprise is far more advanced than in the original series. It also has a storyline not corrsponding to TOS. There's also more advanced technology, much like with the 'Enterprise' TV series. Chris Pine doesn't look anything like William Shatner of TOS time. I was disappointed in that film.
Perhaps I also didn't like the idea of Vulcan being destroyed, and so far back in time.

Well, as you all know by now, STXI is the film that brought me to Trek. I saw it at the cinema knowing nothing about TOS, and I absolutely loved it.

Now that I've watched most of TOS, I attempted to watch STXI again at the weekend. Now, to be fair, it was at the Convention, so my attention span was probably more restless than it would be at home. But I have to say, I got about a third of the way through the film and realised that I just wasn't enjoying it.

I realise that these are different versions of the characters than what we saw in TOS, I realise that it's an alternate timeline, they've had different upbringings, etc. etc.
But taking them as characters in their own right, I just don't like them compared to the TOS characters.

I do think Quinto did a good job with Spock, but I don't think I could ever fall in love with nuSpock like I have with Spock Prime.
And I've said all along that I find nuKirk to be irritating beyond belief.

Croatine, I agree with you about the Romulans too. What I always loved about the TOS Romulans was their nobility and their honour. I can see none of that in Nero.
I haven't seen the extras yet either, so I don't know if that will flesh out the Romulans for me a bit. But if I compare Nero to, say, Mark Lenard's Romulan Commander in Balance of Terror, then I wouldn't even have thought they were the same race.

I will watch the film properly again. I don't think it's a bad film on its own...but as a Trek film I'm growing to like it less and less all the time.

just a point...nero does not stand for all romulans....he had 25 years pent up anger against spock for destroying his family/home/planet...

nero even said it himself "we stand apart from the empire" or something along those lines.