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Do you think that ST:XI has a TOS feel to it?

Croatine

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POSTS: 356

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 3:05 pm

I've finally watched STXI. I've decided to put this topic here, not on the Movies Board, because I'd like to ask you about your impressions with regard to TOS, not in general.

Well, I cannot honestly say that I'm a fan of the new movie. I'm not. I'm not going to evaluate it as a stand alone, science-fiction movie, but as a part of Star Trek legacy, with special regard to TOS era. While I understand perfectly that it could not just recreate the decorations, the type of playing and so on, I get a feeling it lacks something much more important - it lacks the point. I mean, almost every episode of TOS was about something. They tried to convey someting important while providing entertainment. Well, sometimes it bordered on didacticism, and not very subtle ("Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", anyone ;)?), but the intentions were good :). Here I saw amusement only and noting beyond that. No point, atually. OK, amusement is good, notong wrong with pure entertainment, but I'm accustomed to something more in "Star Trek", something deeper.
Plus, for the whole time I just didn't feel that they were the same Kirk, Spock, Bones etc, only younger. To me there were some entirely other young Starfleet officers (although the actor playing Bones was very good), some, let's say,  George, Sonak, McCley ;). I think I'd like it more if they didn't return to TOS heroes, but placed the new heroesl in some very future future.
And last but not least - what a one-dimentional villain! One of the most boring I've seen.

I hope that those of you who liked the new movie would not consider this post some kind of personal and vile attack on them and on something they treasure. It's not my intention. My evaluation, as I've mentioned, concerns only its connection with TOS. I've seen the movie just once and it's quite possible I've missed something important. That's why I am asking you :).

out_of_this_world

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 3:51 pm

I think it really does have a TOS feel, not the same as the TOS era movies but very similar to the series.
I actually felt the characters (apart from Uhura) were very well done and very beleivably younger versions of the original cast. Also, the new movie gives me the happy inside feeling that TOS and TWOK and TVH and TFF give me that the rest of star trek doesn't have so much of.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 4:34 pm

To alimited extent it does. I feel it is a new TREK.

lostshaker

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 5:17 pm

No connection to TOS. Actually, I couldn't see Star Trek in it either.

Croatine

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 5:33 pm

Thank you all very much. I see lostshaker and me are in minority here :). Trekbuff, thanks for the list - I really should see the movie once again, because on the surface I disagree with most of your points ;). I wonder why I somehow cannot find the atmosphere I was looking for :(.
This is stupid, the girls from our board told me I should look forward to the enjoyment and do not expect deep issues there, and still, something was missing...

Starbase, yes, you're absolutely right, they are not the same people, and yet, they share many inborn and acquired traits, they are not tabula rasa. I still see no reason why this new Spock was, iMHO, bordering on psychopathy. I know, he've just lost his mother, but still... He behaved like a very dangerous psychopath who could attack at the slightest provocation...

Renaikan

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 6:36 pm

The opening scene it did. Afterwords a huge no. Call me old school or whatever, I hate change and new twists on TOS, and in my opinion, this new Trek is so way off from the original crew and TOS feel.

Valdena

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 6:37 pm

Quote (Renaikan @ Nov. 19 2009, 6:36 pm)
The opening scene it did. Afterwords a huge no. Call me old school or whatever but in my opinion, this new Trek is so far off from the original characters.

Agree

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 8:16 pm

Okay where do I even start on this topic. I want to comment Croatine because it is a great topic, but bare with me I have gone over much of this over the last 6 months, particularly on the Movies Board.

Firstly I love STXI the more I see it. The more I see Chris Pine the more of 'our' Captain Kirk I see. Pine did NOT set out to be William Shatner or to even be WS's Kirk, but what he did do was learn from Shatner who Kirk is. Being a dedicated 'Kirk Watcher' I am constantly pleased each time I view the movie that there is another layer to Pine's performance.

Quinto is indeed a very different Spock, but again there is just so much of what he and Leonard built into his performance, that I really enjoy this more emotional Spock (still highly controlled and still the fussy old woman he has always been). Quinto's Spock shows us much more of the awesome power of Vulcans and how dangerous that power can be if released. Quinto simmers like Plomeek soup for the entire movie and I love it.

I have yet to find anyone who did not enjoy Karl Urban's performance as McCoy; he really dug down and got the irascible Doctor's essence and did De Kelley proud. This McCoy is the same character completely, nothing has really changed in this timeline for him and so Urban does not have to portray an altered character. There was not enough of him in the film in terms of the 'Big Three' and hopefully they will write more for him in the next movie, he just suffered from the rest of the story not requiring him as a central playes.

Zoe Salander as Uhura - My father always taught me that if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say andything at all.
I don't like what has been done with Uhura's character in the new Star Trek, sorry this would be a whole other post and if it had not been deleted I could have directed you towards a thread where this subject was discussed in minute detail, suffice to say that 'sassy' is not my idea of a strong independent Uhura. Nichols didn't have to 'try' she didn't have to be 'sassy' and 'smartarse' to project the image of a powerful woman performing her task effortlessly.

I won't comment on Spock/Uhura except to say it was unnecessary and hopefully will fizzle out.

John Cho as Sulu very good performance, he is different and doesn't look like the original Sulu, but let's face it Sulu has never been a particularly faceted character and so therefore there was only so much Cho could do, but what he did he did very well.

Anton Yelchin as Chekov, oh be still my beating heart. The new Chekov almost steals the movie in my opinion, he is adorable (as Walter Koenig was as the Russian). Yelchin's performance is just so delightful, and we get to see Pavel from an even younger age - Bravo (BTW I think the red curly hair is a cute and saved him from having to wear a 'Beatles Wig'...LOL

And finally Simon Pegg as Scotty. I must declare that I was a Pegg fan before this and so when I found out that he would play Scotty I was thrilled. Okay this is a very different vision of Scotty than we are used to, but I for one can live with it. I know a lot of folks don't like it and I can understand why, but for me it works. I find Pegg's performance solid and effortless.

The villain in this movie suffers badly from unfortunate editorial decisions. Check out all the Rura Penthe material on the Extras. This stuff adds depth and breadth to Nero's character and motivations. Eric Bana also suffered from this and as a result Nero comes across as little more than a 2 dimensional 'wacko' but there is more to it than that, shame it wasn't in the movie.

Does it 'feel' like Star Trek...oh a big yes, a huge YES. The more I watch it, the more like Star Trek (and of course by that I mean TOS) it is; it's cheesy, it's campy, it's funny, but it is also dead serious as well.

This is a VERY fast paced movie and there is so much to be gained from repeated watchings. After having seen it now maybe somewhere between 20-30 times and now having watched the Extras on the DVD release I can safely say that this trekkie is a very happy camper. The characters are safe in th hands of the new cast, of this I have no doubt. However I am reserving judgment on whether the franchise is safe in the hands of Paramount. There were a few glaring compromises made with certain things in this film and they can be traced to a certain lack of understanding about Star Trek as a whole; these people have a lot of research about what makes a movie popular, but they are not always right and we the audience are apt to surprise them. Few films can sustain a 95% Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, that really is an achievement.

Now let me talk about emotions for a moment. We TOS type trekkies have had the best show ever for 43 years, nothing can change that. And my emotional attachment to TOS is at the most profound level; my love for these characters is intense and I am a protective mother type (I was born in the Year of the Tiger, so don't mess with me...LOL) and I worried for months before the release of this film that they would in some way harm them (alright they did harm Uhura), but instead I walked out of the cinema feeling like these new guys love the characters as much as I do and they are professional actors (no offense to the fan stuff, but those guys can't act) with a professional movie company and production team, with $150M to spend to bring these characters back to the screen, what's not to like?

Sure it is fast paced, but after multiple viewings the quiet moments start to really leap off the screen and take you deeper into the emotional content of the story (which has always been vital to the crew of the Enterprise's story). Sure there are plot holes and scientific silliness, but there always has been in Trek, it's of no consequence.

Please I ask anyone to watch it many times, watch just particular scenes and watch it in it's entirety, you will find that it is Star Trek, and that it's possible to love the old and the new without cheating on the other. Something take getting used to. And of course they can't replace the original, but by crikey they can carry on the tradition and this I believe they are doing.

STAR TREK LIVES!

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:10 pm

Quote (lostshaker @ Nov. 19 2009, 2:17 pm)
No connection to TOS. Actually, I couldn't see Star Trek in it either.

Then clearly you know very little about TOS and TREK in general.

I find it funny how people call it star wars like when George Lucas was inspired by Star Trek to make Star Wars....

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:13 pm

Quote (Renaikan @ Nov. 19 2009, 3:36 pm)
The opening scene it did. Afterwords a huge no. Call me old school or whatever, I hate change and new twists on TOS, and in my opinion, this new Trek is so way off from the original crew and TOS feel.

other than the updating that was done in TREK XI(which wasn't really needed), A large portion of TREK XI  was filling in the gaps that hadn't been covered in previous TREK on screen....


But then again I don't know much about TREK..............

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:17 pm

Look I just watched it again.And I really think it comes down to the shock of the new. Seeing a new Captain kirk, a new Spock, a new McCoy is a big culture shock and one that can easily be overcome by multiple viewings, then the story and the passion and action and depth will all jump off the scene. This is an intense movie and is literally too much to take in a just a few viewings.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:19 pm

Quote (Mirrorgirl @ Nov. 19 2009, 8:17 pm)
Look I just watched it again.And I really think it comes down to the shock of the new. Seeing a new Captain kirk, a new Spock, a new McCoy is a big culture shock and one that can easily be overcome by multiple viewings, then the story and the passion and action and depth will all jump off the scene. This is an intense movie and is literally too much to take in a just a few viewings.

All very true, yet my biggest hurdle was/is the nuEnterprise. for me it's a bit much to get past. Everything else i can deal with nicely.

Mirrorgirl

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:24 pm

I've kinda fallen for the new girl, she's pretty funky! The interiors are a Horrorshow, seriously they embarrass me, but then so does the Gorn, so my Shame Gland is well and truly tempered to this sort of thing (a Brewery for godssake? What where they thinking? ) But that stuff just doesn't matter to me, I know it does to others, but I guess I can just laugh about it.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:30 pm

Quote (MarmaladeSkies @ Nov. 19 2009, 8:24 pm)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Nov. 19 2009, 8:19 pm)
All very true, yet my biggest hurdle was/is the nuEnterprise. for me it's a bit much to get past. Everything else i can deal with nicely.

What don't you like about it? I think the interior is blindingly bright compared to the old Ent.

I can't get over nuKirk (as stated before). Not that I expect him to be Shatner, but...I dunno. He rubs me the wrong way. *shrugs*

Well at least to me the Enterprise was one of the most important characters in TOS..

AND

There can be only one NCC-1701!  No bloody refit OR reboot!

lostshaker

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:53 pm

Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Nov. 19 2009, 11:10 pm)
Quote (lostshaker @ Nov. 19 2009, 2:17 pm)
No connection to TOS. Actually, I couldn't see Star Trek in it either.

Then clearly you know very little about TOS and TREK in general.

I find it funny how people call it star wars like when George Lucas was inspired by Star Trek to make Star Wars....

I know all about TOS and Trek. I've got all the shows from all the series and all ten movies and have them faithfully committed to memory. I've got the original shows, I've got Sci Fi's remastered and re-edited edition, and I've got the DVDs.

But when in TOS was Kirk ever an obnoxious drunken fondling jerk? I guess this is Star Trek if you take a page from the animated series and go with "Kirk the jerk", then I'll agree on that basis.

Or how about the classic bridge scene where Quinto says, "get him off this ship," and they eject Kirk the jerk onto the frozen waste land of Delta Vega (they might as well have deposited him on Rura Penthe)... does no one on the bridge say, "Hey! We have a brig,"? Instead, they the bridge crew of the Federation Flagship goes along with Quinto's attempt at voluntary manslaughter, which at least makes the bridge crew guilty of involuntary manslaughter for not bringing up the point about the brig. Someone should have at least said, "Hey, we have an outpost down there. We can at least beam Kirk the jerk to the outpost and give this guy named Scotty some company. At least we won't risk killing anybody." What amazes me further is how Kirk the jerk wants to go back to a ship where the crew was happy to exile him with the possibility of death. What a brilliant display of strategy right here! So, the amoral crew ends up following a poor strategist - who they previously abandoned - into battle... Star Trek???

Then back at the beginning of the movie, the shuttle on the Kelvin was all banged up and not spit shinned and polished. Every other real crew repaired their shuttles when they got them back after a mission. It's no wonder the automatic pilot went off line at the beginning of the movie. The Kelvin was filled with a substandard crew with the intelligence level of Pakleds and probably didn't know how to fix their ship.

A more accurate description of this movie is a galactic turd orbiting a galactic urinal.

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