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The Narada

JIMCOOK

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POSTS: 20

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:19 am

So the Klingons capture Nero & the Nerada -
1.0 Why don't they use the Nerada in the intervening years? ¿

2.0 How is the crippled ship suddenly back to normal after 25 years?

3.0 A thirty year old ship (the Kelvin) can cripple the vessel but 5/6 presumably newer vessels can't touch it (as well as 47 warbirds) - kinda makes the opening sequence impossible.

4.0 The Narada is a Romulan skunk works Borg retrofitted presumably the most powerful ship in their fleet - & they leave the original crew with it? ¿It would be like USAF recruiting some Coal Miner's.

5.0 Why did the klingons wait so long before using the slugs to mind control the Romulans?

6.0 So they escape - how do they actually take the vessel back? surely the Klingons stored it secretly light years away? u no, a bit like the arc of the covenent - but bigger :question:

Trekwolf164

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:29 am

Hey don't go throwing around complaints about the plot holes in Trek XI "The greatest Star Trek film of all time" remember Trek XI has flashing lights and loud noises making it the best written film ever to hold Star Trek in the title.

:sarcastic:

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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POSTS: 0

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 11:44 am

Quote (JIMCOOK @ Nov. 19 2009, 8:19 am)

Quote
2.0 How is the crippled ship suddenly back to normal after 25 years?


It is a Romulan mining vessel that has been outfitted with borg based technology.

Quote
4.0 The Narada is a Romulan skunk works Borg retrofitted presumably the most powerful ship in their fleet - & they leave the original crew with it? ?It would be like USAF recruiting some Coal Miner's.


Nero had the ship outfitted with borg tech. Read the countdown comics for more details.

Quote

6.0 So they escape - how do they actually take the vessel back? surely the Klingons stored it secretly light years away? u no, a bit like the arc of the covenent - but bigger :question:


Maybe the Klingons didn't keep it a secret... As to how exactly it was taken back we may never know the details.

So why are you asking us questions that were asked 6 months ago???

SaturnsRings

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POSTS: 0

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 1:03 pm

Quote (Trekwolf164 @ Nov. 19 2009, 11:29 am)
Hey don't go throwing around complaints about the plot holes in Trek XI "The greatest Star Trek film of all time" remember Trek XI has flashing lights and loud noises making it the best written film ever to hold Star Trek in the title.

:sarcastic:

The day any movie has to spoon feed its audience all the missing information is a day people's imagination has atrophied.

Sometimes a little mystery is great for story telling.

Narada

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POSTS: 4010

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 1:05 pm

Very good comments and explanations ViceAdmBaxter and SaturnRings. This is what I also believe.

God_in_an_Alcove

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POSTS: 4538

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 1:50 pm

Quote (JIMCOOK @ Nov. 19 2009, 8:19 am)
So the Klingons capture Nero & the Nerada -
1.0 Why don't they use the Nerada in the intervening years?

They were probably trying to reverse engineer it so they can upgrade their own ships with better weaponry. In essence, more than likely they were using it.

Quote
3.0 A thirty year old ship (the Kelvin) can cripple the vessel but 5/6 presumably newer vessels can't touch it (as well as 47 warbirds) - kinda makes the opening sequence impossible.


The destruction of the entire ship as it rammed into the Narada crippled it. The small fleet of ships later on was ambushed with shields down, probably destroyed before they got a shot off.

Quote
5.0 Why did the klingons wait so long before using the slugs to mind control the Romulans?


First of all, the slugs are simple instruments of torture, not mind control. Secondly, they didn't use them at first because they thought that the Romulans were just run-of-the-mill Romulans. It wasn't until they learned the truth about their origins and that Ambassador Spock's ship had a powerful weapon (the Red Matter) that they decided to extract any information from Nero.

:question:

That's the only question you've asked that doesn't have an answer.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 3:08 pm

Actually, since deleted scenes aren't canon...there's actually no ground to stand on in saying that the Narada was captured by Klingons during this period of time. And, Uhura's canon dialogue in the film only alludes to "a Klingon armada being destroyed" and not to a "prison break."

So, technically, there's no canon proof that the Narada and her crew WERE in fact captured.

Narada

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POSTS: 4010

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 3:16 pm

Yes you are right because there are only clues. The main clue is that 47 Klingon ships were destroyed and also the Narada and Romulans were not seen for 25 years. Also in the flashback we see Nero doing slave or prison work when Spock says he and his crew waited for 25 years. There is also some kind of animal bite scar on Nero which can relate to a Targ bite. Since these are only clues it can be open for interpretation but when paired with the deleted scenes there is no question.

To me it is like the deleted scene of Wesley Crusher in Nemesis. His scene was cut out but you can still see him in the background shot from the movie. So we know he is there but the reason he explains to be there is in the deleted scene. I feel this is comparable to the deleted Klingon scene because there are additional clues in the movie besides this sequence.

MrMordenandAssociates

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POSTS: 622

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 3:32 pm

Quote  

3.0 A thirty year old ship (the Kelvin) can cripple the vessel but 5/6 presumably newer vessels can't touch it (as well as 47 warbirds) - kinda makes the opening sequence impossible.


The Kelvin rammed the Narada, and since the Kelvin's warp core was going to explode it caused considerable damage. So the opening scene is VERY possible.


The antimatter from the Kelvin should have vaporized the Narada. The movie should have been over before "Lost in Space", I mean "Star Trek" flashed on the screen.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 3:57 pm

Quote (MrMordenandAssociates @ Nov. 19 2009, 3:32 pm)
Quote ¿

3.0 A thirty year old ship (the Kelvin) can cripple the vessel but 5/6 presumably newer vessels can't touch it (as well as 47 warbirds) - kinda makes the opening sequence impossible.


The Kelvin rammed the Narada, and since the Kelvin's warp core was going to explode it caused considerable damage. So the opening scene is VERY possible.


The antimatter from the Kelvin should have vaporized the Narada. The movie should have been over before "Lost in Space", I mean "Star Trek" flashed on the screen.

I thought we had gone over this before.

It's clear that the destruction of a starship does not necessarily mean that a matter / antimatter explosion is the result.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 4:01 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 19 2009, 3:21 pm)
Quote (Vger23 @ Nov. 19 2009, 3:08 pm)
Actually, since deleted scenes aren't canon...there's actually no ground to stand on in saying that the Narada was captured by Klingons during this period of time. And, Uhura's canon dialogue in the film only alludes to "a Klingon armada being destroyed" and not to a "prison break."

So, technically, there's no canon proof that the Narada and her crew WERE in fact captured.

Weird, huh...

I wouldn't have minded the movie being 10 or 20 minutes longer... It went by fast...

Agreed.

10 minutes longer or perhaps some alternate editing would have improved some of the missing holes in the plot.

Narada

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POSTS: 4010

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 4:06 pm

I think it is all there if you look closely enough. I feel it is the style of these filmmakers and also for Star Trek to not connect every single dot. This leads room for speculation and imagination and also for interesting discussions. I do like the deleted scenes though and the Klingons are very cool in this movie.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 4:13 pm

Quote (Narada @ Nov. 19 2009, 4:06 pm)
I think it is all there if you look closely enough. I feel it is the style of these filmmakers and also for Star Trek to not connect every single dot. This leads room for speculation and imagination and also for interesting discussions. I do like the deleted scenes though and the Klingons are very cool in this movie.

Agreed. Sometimes, it's better to have gaps left to fill in with the imagination.

In fact, I'm surprised that Trek fans would be so unforgiving with this, since it really lends itself to fanfiction, novels, or comics that can fill in the gaps (as with the Countdown series).

I also agree that the Klingons were very cool. As much as I enjoy the Klingons, they had almost become a joke or a caricature of themselves in the later spin-offs. The Klingons featured in the deleted scenes remind me more of those from TOS and from the earlier Trek movies.

Narada

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POSTS: 4010

Report this Nov. 19 2009, 4:14 pm

Yes I am also in agreement with your comments.

:cool:  :cool:

SaturnsRings

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Report this Nov. 19 2009, 4:46 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 19 2009, 4:31 pm)
There's a big difference between suggesting someone needs to be spoon fed and obvious gaps in a story. If one only need use their imagination, then why watch a movie?

There were definitely gaps in the storyline of STXI. You even said so yourself, Coach. What we don't know about Nero's capture by and escape from the Klingons being the biggest.

I just get my fur rubbed a bit backwards when my seeing gaps in the flow of the story and actual plot holes are dismissed as my lack of imagination.

*shrug*

If you feel those are big gaps, I will not argue that point with you. To you they are big gaps.

To me they're not.

Is the movie ambiguous about Nero's whereabouts for 25 years? I would say so.

What is implied through Uhura's information about the escape of a prisoner from the prison planet, and Kirk using that as a clue Vulcan is being attacked, does imply that Nero had been the prisoner who escaped and stole a ship.

Nero also sates he was waiting for Spock to come through the black whole.

To me the bit of ambiguity and what is implied gives room for the imagination and I really don't see it as a plot hole. I am alright if you see it that way. :)

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