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I need to open another can of worms!

SaturnsRings

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Report this Nov. 17 2009, 10:55 pm

I have watched the DVD twice. Once on its own the second time with the commentaries.

The time travel stuff still makes my head spin!

In some ways they want us to think that Spock Prime is coming back to the past of the same universe that he was originally from, yet the black hole/red matter combo created a parallel universe that co-exists with the original time line...but that means then that he really isn't from their future but the future of a different time-line.

Maybe I need to look at it from the perspective of it all happening within the same universe but parallel time lines.  

Or...

I am personally okay with thinking that this new time line is erasing the old time line even if that was not the intent . It makes better sense looking at it that way and it won't stop me from enjoying all my old DVDs.

I am still so confused!

brownrecluse

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 12:04 am

within the same universe but parallel time lines.  

Exactly.

31st_Century_Temporal_Age
nt

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 10:10 am

Quote (brownrecluse @ Nov. 18 2009, 12:04 am)
within the same universe but parallel time lines. ¿

Exactly.

I can side with multiple timelines existing in the same universe more than this being an alternate universe and not a changed prime timeline.

They just used that explanation as a cop out because they needed a way to create a separate license for cbs and paramount. I still don't buy it and using the term alternate reality in the movie is just a vague cop out.

An alternate reality is a just a general term that applies to where one is in relation to their native plane of existence. An alternate reality for someone could easily be an alternate universe, alternate timeline, or an alternate dimension (dimensional plane of existence, ie: Q, Prophets, Sphere Builders)

31st_Century_Temporal_Age
nt

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POSTS: 845

Report this Nov. 18 2009, 10:22 am

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:14 am)
It works, that's all that matters.

Disagree!

It makes real Trek and Abrams Trek two separate entities that don't interact.

:logical:

Strongly Agree!

It works, that's all that matters.

Disagree!

It makes real Trek and Abrams Trek two separate entities that don't interact.

:logical:

Strongly Agree!

truefan1

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POSTS: 3424

Report this Nov. 18 2009, 1:44 pm

Another HUGH clue for proving the continued existence of the Original Timeline is new stories; Novels, Comics, etc. are still being published.

Everyone claiming foul needs to get it through their heads; the Original and the New Timelines coexist!

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 1:48 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:43 am)
Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:19 pm)
The previous unfolding of Trek history now exists only on one's DVDs.

Unless of course CBS decides in any future series to continue in the Prime timeline... ;)

:logical:

Which in all honesty highly unlikely that they will continue the prime timeline in any live action format.

CGI cartoon maybe.....

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 1:50 pm

Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:19 am)
The previous unfolding of Trek history now exists only on one's DVDs.

And in the books.

Which according to some authors now have there own canon seperate from the seen on screen canon.

31st_Century_Temporal_Age
nt

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 1:54 pm

Quote (truefan1 @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:44 pm)
Another HUGH clue for proving the continued existence of the Original Timeline is new stories; Novels, Comics, etc. are still being published.

Everyone claiming foul needs to get it through their heads; the Original and the New Timelines coexist!

Of course they will continue to exist and be enjoyable. But from the explanation that was given they shouldn't continue. This just reflects on the way the movie was explained on screen not the bs explanation Orci gave. I will accept Trek in virtually any form but it was just one of those things that can never be repaired in any of Trek's universes.

Even star trek online bought into this garbage only because they didn't want their new game to take place in an erased timeline.

No let me be clear Trek has numerous forms of temporal events and how they effect the multiverse. I do believe what they said could easily exist in Trek. The problem I have it is not what was proven to actually happen on screen in Trek 11. The explanation Orci gave makes sense from a licensing standpoint and I whole heartly agree with it for that purpose only.

I am aware that there are an infinite number of universes with all possible outcomes but my point is that is not what was shown on screen aka canon. Even so under that theory Spock would have ended up in other alternate universe when he emerged 25 years later in 2258.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 1:56 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:54 am)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:50 pm)
Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:19 am)
The previous unfolding of Trek history now exists only on one's DVDs.

And in the books.

Which according to some authors now have there own canon seperate from the seen on screen canon.

Maybe not so much canon as it is a sense of continuity between books...

:logical:

Yes thats my interpretation as well.

31st_Century_Temporal_Age
nt

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POSTS: 845

Report this Nov. 18 2009, 1:57 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:56 pm)
Quote (truefan1 @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:44 pm)
Another HUGH clue for proving the continued existence of the Original Timeline is new stories; Novels, Comics, etc. are still being published.

Everyone claiming foul needs to get it through their heads; the Original and the New Timelines coexist!

I think the fact the two timelines are owned by separate companies should be clue enough...

Original timeline and overall ownership of Star Trek: CBS

New timeline and Movies: Paramount

:logical:

It is very plausible and acceptable that both universes exist from a licensing standpoint and I am all for it. But how we got there on screen remains inconsistent.

truefan1

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 1:59 pm

That is a "Canonista" POV and one I do not share. It's fiction, anything is possible.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 2:00 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:53 am)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:48 pm)
Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:43 am)
Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:19 pm)
The previous unfolding of Trek history now exists only on one's DVDs.

Unless of course CBS decides in any future series to continue in the Prime timeline... ;)

:logical:

Which in all honesty highly unlikely that they will continue the prime timeline in any live action format.

CGI cartoon maybe.....

Unlikely...why...?

:question:

:logical:

Cost of recreating or rebuilding sets, creative powers that be. The simple fact that any new TV series will be produced by JJ Abrams.

Things of that nature. Mind you a CGI cartoon is highly possible since it could be produced for a fraction of a live action show and they could do much much more.

31st_Century_Temporal_Age
nt

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 2:05 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:59 pm)
Not only is it Star Trek, 31st, it's science fiction.

Accept the technobabble and breathe easier... ;)

:logical:

Well I understand that. I don't lose sleep over it believe me. After all I am alone as a Trek fan in our household but still Star Trek has been the most canonically scrutinized franchise in Earth's history. So I feel the need to participate in it's discussion.

I honestly believe without Star Trek I would be dumber. I started watching TNG when I was 9 years old and Star Trek taught me to think more critically. I owe a lot to Trek and feel it gets the raw end of the deal when these PAID professionals can easily balance plausibility, canon, and creativity without sacrificing either of the three.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 2:15 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 11:13 am)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Nov. 18 2009, 2:00 pm)
Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:53 am)
Quote (Vice_Adm_Baxter @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:48 pm)
Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 10:43 am)
Quote (trekbuff @ Nov. 18 2009, 1:19 pm)
The previous unfolding of Trek history now exists only on one's DVDs.

Unless of course CBS decides in any future series to continue in the Prime timeline... ;)

:logical:

Which in all honesty highly unlikely that they will continue the prime timeline in any live action format.

CGI cartoon maybe.....

Unlikely...why...?

:question:

:logical:

Cost of recreating or rebuilding sets, creative powers that be. The simple fact that any new TV series will be produced by JJ Abrams.

Things of that nature. Mind you a CGI cartoon is highly possible since it could be produced for a fraction of a live action show and they could do much much more.

That's all speculation on your part, Rad.

Where is it a "fact" that Abrams would produce any new TV series? Right now he works for Paramount as far as Trek goes, not CBS. And with projects he has lined up, probably wouldn't have time to devote to a Trek series.

And if in two and a half years when CBS is clear to put a new series on the air and Trek is still a hot item and CBS thinks it has something ready to run with, expect them to happily spend the money...

:logical:

Exactly on what's HOT. Most likely that will be the nuTREK we are getting now.

Remember I'm the one one that made all the right calls in regard to TREK XI.

;)  :logical:

Vice_Adm_Baxter

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Report this Nov. 18 2009, 2:24 pm

Quote (starbase63 @ Nov. 18 2009, 11:20 am)
But CBS, not Paramount, will be making any new series...

Doubt CBS is going to want to pay money to Paramount for the rights to use the new timeline when they already own 4 billion years worth of existing timeline.

If anything, if they didn't use the Prime timeline, CBS may just create their own new timeline to work with...

:logical:

They are seperate companies, yet i'm very sure the will share the rights to TREK in the name of money if for no other reason.

Mind you if the continue on with something altogether new it means they most likely are not returning to the prime timeline.  :logical:

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