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Sorry to open this can of worms again.

SaturnsRings

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 2:07 pm

I know this horse has been beaten to death so my apologies. But I recently found a screen shot which shows Kirk was not a cadet when he was on the ship but a Lieutenant.

Did he still become Captain too fast? Sure. Does it matter to me? No.



Hey, I will even protest myself.

Narada

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 2:48 pm

Very great screen shot! This is actually the first time I remember hearing of this or seeing this display screen. I cannot find my link to the movie dialogue. Does Pike call him "Cadet Kirk" on the bridge? This is probably a traditional title but it is clear from the screen shot he is a Lt.

TrekFan1701E

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 4:43 pm

Pike gave Kirk a field promotion right before he took the shuttle over to the Nardia. I think it was to third in command after Spock. Then Starfleet promoted Kirk to Captain for saving Earth and Pike to Admiral.

Narada

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 5:10 pm

Oh this makes sense. So this display screen is reading the promotion of Kirk right before this mission then?

Captain_Storma

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 5:29 pm

Wait a minute... that's still 3 years from farmboy to captain of the ship of the line.

Changes nothing.  :sarcastic:

Come on guys... even people who liked the film can admit that this was just ridiculous.
The most important aspect of leadership is experience. Mr. Kirk had none when he was made captain of the UFP's finest starship.
Just way over the top.

Narada

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 5:54 pm

Yes Captain_Storma you make a good point but there is also something to consider! There is information provided about Cadet Kirk which no doubt aided in the Starfleet decision to promote him. It was not only that he saved Earth and Starfleet and also Captain Pike. He was also top of his class in some categories and had other responsibilities. His father was also first in command and also a Captain. These were all factors in his promotion!

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/James_T._Kirk_%28alternate_reality%29
While at the Academy, Kirk and McCoy became close friends. Kirk had been promoted to Lieutenant, but had failed the Kobayashi Maru test twice. He decided to take it a third time, being sure that he would succeed. He eventually managed to cheat the test and won. Spock, who programmed the "no-win scenario," investigated the matter.

According to his dossier at the official Star Trek movie website, as a Starfleet Academy cadet, Kirk was top of his class in survival strategies and tactical analysis and the assistant instructor in advanced hand-to-hand combat. He was also Treasurer of Starfleet Academy's Xenolinguistics club.

TrekFan1701E

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 6:44 pm

Quote (Narada @ Nov. 07 2009, 5:10 pm)
Oh this makes sense. So this display screen is reading the promotion of Kirk right before this mission then?

Yes right before the shuttle mission to the Nardia. I guess Kirk was promoted to Lt. at the Academy when McCoy took him aboard the Enterprise and Pike promoted him to Commander? Is that right? Can you get promoted at while being at the Academy?

rocketscientist

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 6:57 pm

Quote (Captain_Storma @ Nov. 07 2009, 5:29 pm)
Wait a minute... that's still 3 years from farmboy to captain of the ship of the line.

Changes nothing. ¿:sarcastic:

Come on guys... even people who liked the film can admit that this was just ridiculous.

Hell, I'll admit it, Storma!  :laugh:

I understand why they did it, to put all the crew together at the end, but Orci, at least, must have known that they'd get justifiable flack from the fans for that huge promotion at the end.  

I still loved the film though, even if it wasn't perfect.  IMO, it was so much better than GEN, INS, and NEM that I'm perfectly willing to overlook that flaw.

Quote

The most important aspect of leadership is experience. Mr. Kirk had none when he was made captain of the UFP's finest starship.


Well, he had some and he'd shown that he had a heck of a lot of potential as well as endorsements from Pike and Spock Prime.  

That said, I agree, promoting him to captain was still far-fetched.  

At the most, maybe lieutenant commander under Pike or something like that.   Have him advance to captain in the next film.  That's what I would've done.

fooledagain

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Report this Nov. 07 2009, 9:31 pm

Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 07 2009, 6:44 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Nov. 07 2009, 5:10 pm)
Oh this makes sense. So this display screen is reading the promotion of Kirk right before this mission then?

Yes right before the shuttle mission to the Nardia. I guess Kirk was promoted to Lt. at the Academy when McCoy took him aboard the Enterprise and Pike promoted him to Commander? Is that right? Can you get promoted at while being at the Academy?

So the outcome of the the disciplinary hearing for cheating on the sushi test was to promote Kirk to lieutenant?

SpaceClown77

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Report this Nov. 08 2009, 3:40 am

It still grates me Kirk was made captain at the end of the film. I wasn't happy with that at ALL*

*Let's out a big...

*SIGH*

Captain_Storma

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Report this Nov. 08 2009, 4:50 am

Thank you rs ¿:D

Now I am seeing you liked the movie, but won't defend it to the death  :cool:

stovokor2000

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Report this Nov. 08 2009, 5:09 am

Quote (ZeroArmour @ Nov. 07 2009, 9:42 pm)
Actually, holding a rank (such as Lt) doesn't mean he wasn't a cadet.

Exactly.

Uhra was in the same position.

TrekFan1701E

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Report this Nov. 08 2009, 10:13 am

Quote (fooledagain @ Nov. 07 2009, 9:31 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 07 2009, 6:44 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Nov. 07 2009, 5:10 pm)
Oh this makes sense. So this display screen is reading the promotion of Kirk right before this mission then?

Yes right before the shuttle mission to the Nardia. I guess Kirk was promoted to Lt. at the Academy when McCoy took him aboard the Enterprise and Pike promoted him to Commander? Is that right? Can you get promoted at while being at the Academy?

So the outcome of the the disciplinary hearing for cheating on the sushi test was to promote Kirk to lieutenant?

He may have been promoted to Lt. before the Kobyashi Maru test.

DS9TREK

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Report this Nov. 08 2009, 4:26 pm

Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 08 2009, 3:13 pm)
Quote (fooledagain @ Nov. 07 2009, 9:31 pm)
Quote (TrekFan1701E @ Nov. 07 2009, 6:44 pm)
Quote (Narada @ Nov. 07 2009, 5:10 pm)
Oh this makes sense. So this display screen is reading the promotion of Kirk right before this mission then?

Yes right before the shuttle mission to the Nardia. I guess Kirk was promoted to Lt. at the Academy when McCoy took him aboard the Enterprise and Pike promoted him to Commander? Is that right? Can you get promoted at while being at the Academy?

So the outcome of the the disciplinary hearing for cheating on the sushi test was to promote Kirk to lieutenant?

He may have been promoted to Lt. before the Kobyashi Maru test.

He wasn't. Spock was still calling Kirk cadet after the test.

TrekFan1701E

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POSTS: 14979

Report this Nov. 08 2009, 4:59 pm

I looked at the screen shot again and I think that screen may have been the transporter screen inorder to try and keep a lock on Kirk and Sulu. I do remember Pike promoting Kirk right before they were getting ready for the shuttle mission to the Nardia like I said in an earlier post in this thread. However I guess they didn't have any Enterprise crewmembers that had a Commander rank? Unless Kirk was promoted to Lt. Commander? By the way I did like the new movie.

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