ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

So is Romulus officiall destroyed?

kvlc

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 306

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 9:51 pm

They have a whole empire, don't they?  Just because Romulus is gone doesn't mean they are.  It's probably a crippling blow, but comparable to Earth being destroyed.  The Federation would take a huge hit but still exist on Andoria, Vulcan, Betazed, etc...

MrMordenandAssociates

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 622

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 11:19 pm

Quote (kvlc @ Nov. 01 2009, 9:51 pm)
They have a whole empire, don't they? ¿Just because Romulus is gone doesn't mean they are. ¿It's probably a crippling blow, but comparable to Earth being destroyed. ¿The Federation would take a huge hit but still exist on Andoria, Vulcan, Betazed, etc...

Vulcan?

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 11:48 pm

Quote (marshall8472 @ Nov. 01 2009, 9:31 pm)
I know most of the movie occurred in the alternate timeline except the part where spock destroyed Romulus and got pulled back in time with the Romulan ship. ¿So can we say that romulans are no longer a problem in the 24th century? (assumeing this occured in the 24th century)

The way I see it, the Romulans could be a bigger problem then ever in the 24th century.

Its not like every Romulan would have been killed.By tht point and time they must have had hundreds,thousands maybe millions of colonies threw out known space.

All of which reported back to the home world.Now with out a homeworld their colonies and armies could all fall apart, causing the Romulans to act like pirates.

SaturnsRings

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 12:18 am

Quote (MrMordenandAssociates @ Nov. 01 2009, 11:19 pm)
Quote (kvlc @ Nov. 01 2009, 9:51 pm)
They have a whole empire, don't they? ?Just because Romulus is gone doesn't mean they are. ?It's probably a crippling blow, but comparable to Earth being destroyed. ?The Federation would take a huge hit but still exist on Andoria, Vulcan, Betazed, etc...

Vulcan?

In the prime time line Vulcan still exists while Romulus does not.

In the alternate time line Vulcan no longer exists but Romulus does.

RomulusRemus

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 283

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 2:50 am

Quote (ZeroArmour @ Nov. 02 2009, 2:35 am)
And we have no way of knowing for sure that future Spock even comes from the main timeline!

TPTB were just trying to humor longtime fans with this Nimoy-Spock/alternate timeline stuff.

RomulusRemus

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 283

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 3:26 am

TPTB = The Powers That Be

stovokor2000

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2683

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 7:43 am

Quote (ZeroArmour @ Nov. 02 2009, 3:33 am)
Yeah, the film seemed to have a lot of that.

Chekov's accent.
Sulu's sword fight.
Uhura's "uniform".

That was one of two big mistakes they made, the other was the time travel explanation. I'm reminded of an old axiom, if you have to explane yourself, you've failed.

May I ask what exactly was wrong with Uhura's "uniform" in your opinion???

Praxius

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 170

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 11:29 am

Quote (marshall8472 @ Nov. 01 2009, 5:31 pm)
I know most of the movie occurred in the alternate timeline except the part where spock destroyed Romulus and got pulled back in time with the Romulan ship. ?So can we say that romulans are no longer a problem in the 24th century? (assumeing this occured in the 24th century)

Well Spock didn't destroy Romulus, he was just a little slow in getting around to saving Romulus before the Supernova destroyed the planet.

.... which still doesn't make any sense when you think about it.... even if Spock made the black hole to absorb the Supernova, Romulus wouldn't have a sun anymore and would have died off eventually anyways. They might have a day or two extra to get people off the planet, but Romulus would have been doomed either way.

Anyways, as soon as Spock went through time, that future is no longer accurate to reality. In other words, Romulus still exists until that time again when the supernova occurs..... but now that Vulcan is toast, that future in which Spock came from will never occur. Of course with the Romulan minning ship and Spock going back in time causing the changes they did, besides Vulcan being destroyed, that previous timeline is kaput.

The Romulans will now remain a problem all the way up to this Supernova occuring again, meanwhile Vulcans will not have the impact they once did, due to reduced population, no home planet, etc.

The bigger question that remains is will the new/younger Spock attempt to repeat trying to save Romulus where the older Spock once failed, or will he hold a grudge for losing Vulcan at the hands of a crazy Romulan?

Because while all humanoid actions and events may change/alter from the time shift, I am sure natural occurances will still remain consistant.... thus this Supernova will occur again.

Now that will get yer noodle cooking.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 12:29 pm

Quote (ZeroArmour @ Nov. 02 2009, 12:33 am)
Yeah, the film seemed to have a lot of that.

Chekov's accent.
Sulu's sword fight.
Uhura's "uniform".

That was one of two big mistakes they made, the other was the time travel explanation. I'm reminded of an old axiom, if you have to explane yourself, you've failed.

Oh really? Guess that means I fail at work every time I go into a meeting because:

In my line of work I end up explaining most everything I say in a meeting because most of the people I'm dealing with don't understand the technical phrases.

Praxius

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 170

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 1:17 pm

Quote (ZeroArmour @ Nov. 01 2009, 10:35 pm)
And we have no way of knowing for sure that future Spock even comes from the main timeline!

Why would you even assume otherwise?

What other timeline would there be?

It's well known that Spock have plenty of brownie points with Romulans for his work during the TNG series, and with his vast knowledge of space, time, and a pile of other crap over the years of his existence, one would assume he'd be the best at trying to save Romulus.

He explains his friendship with Kirk of the old to the new kirk to get him to take the ship back from young Spock, it all seems to take place after Nemisis, there was no hint of any alternative realities, and regardless, even if he was from an alternative reality, him going back in time would cancel out anything in regards to the future no matter what reality.

It wouldn't even make any sense to have this story continue from some alternative reality from what we've all seen in the various shows, so logically, all we're left with is that Old Spock is the old Spock we've all grown up watching from the original series.

The powers of deduction would conclude, based on any lack of evidence for your own claim, that he came from the one and only reality that would be valid to continue the Star Trek saga.

Praxius

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 170

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 1:27 pm

Quote (SaturnsRings @ Nov. 01 2009, 8:18 pm)
In the prime time line Vulcan still exists while Romulus does not.

In the alternate time line Vulcan no longer exists but Romulus does.

Why would anybody even consider that there is such a thing as a prime timeline or alternative time line?

It's all the same timeline depending on who's perspective you view this from.... old Spock's or the new ST Crew's?

If you just view it from the new ST crew's perspective, then you never fully understand all of what occured to make everything as it currently is now.

But if you view it from Old Spocks perspective, then time is merely continuing as it did before in his life, only now it's leaped back a bit to take a different path.... but it's all still the same timeline in a sense, because in order for everything to occur in the new movie as it did, every single factor and action in the Original series, TNG, DS9 and Voyager all would have had to occur as they did, because if they didn't.... there would be a big chance that Spock wouldn't have ever gone to save Romulus, Romulus would have been destroyed regardless, no black hole would have been created, Nero wouldn't hold a big hate on for Spock, and wouldn't have been able to go back in time to cause all this mess in the first place.

drellan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 163

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 3:27 pm

I would imagine the romulans of the 24th century begin to divide into factions. There would be no more empire. Further, the situation would deteriorate so badly that you may see civil war.

Vold

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16223

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 5:08 pm

Quote (drellan @ Nov. 02 2009, 3:27 pm)
I would imagine the romulans of the 24th century begin to divide into factions. There would be no more empire. Further, the situation would deteriorate so badly that you may see civil war.

i imagine this is a big chance for them to go undercover (population wide)
for all we know, no one died or only those who are oblivious of the discrete movement.

They want the other forces to think they're gone.
:cool:

flyfisher

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 464

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 7:48 pm

Quote (Praxius @ Nov. 02 2009, 3:27 pm)
Quote (SaturnsRings @ Nov. 01 2009, 8:18 pm)
In the prime time line Vulcan still exists while Romulus does not.

In the alternate time line Vulcan no longer exists but Romulus does.

Why would anybody even consider that there is such a thing as a prime timeline or alternative time line?

It's all the same timeline depending on who's perspective you view this from.... old Spock's or the new ST Crew's?

If you just view it from the new ST crew's perspective, then you never fully understand all of what occured to make everything as it currently is now.

But if you view it from Old Spocks perspective, then time is merely continuing as it did before in his life, only now it's leaped back a bit to take a different path.... but it's all still the same timeline in a sense, because in order for everything to occur in the new movie as it did, every single factor and action in the Original series, TNG, DS9 and Voyager all would have had to occur as they did, because if they didn't.... there would be a big chance that Spock wouldn't have ever gone to save Romulus, Romulus would have been destroyed regardless, no black hole would have been created, Nero wouldn't hold a big hate on for Spock, and wouldn't have been able to go back in time to cause all this mess in the first place.

String theory suggests that some of your comments are correct, others, maybe not. Everything from the incursion point; (the point where Spock and Nero went back in time) changes every time line from that point forward.

There may be some that are similar to the original TOS, TNG, etc. time lines but it is by no means guaranteed.

I disagree with Spock's perspective purported in your post. Spock, better than anyone, knows that all of the work he did as a negotiator is LOST because it no longer exists. Old Spock has to make another path and young Spock has to continue in the new time line.

What you are trying to explain is the classical grandfather paradox. As Einstein's theory states, time and space are NOT linear in that one action doesn't have to happen for another to occur.

Once a temporal incursion or paradox occurs, it doesn't mean that it was meant to be (at least in real Physics), but it could depending on the choices and actions of the individuals influencing the time line.

I am pretty sure this is exactly the mess they wanted to create so they would have complete autonomy to tell whatever type of stories they want without having the restrictions associated with current Trek Canon.

UtopiaPlanitia

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1419

Report this Nov. 02 2009, 10:12 pm

destruction of Roumulus puts in place events that lead to the Klingons invading the Romulan Empire as seen in the series finale of TNG.  The klingons take over the Romulan empire.

Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: DS9_FOREVER!

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum