whyaduck GROUP: Members POSTS: 3478  |
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Nov. 01 2009, 10:13 am
This is an episode that doesn't get discussed much. It was my treadmill ep a couple of days ago. It really delves into the dilemma of what would become the prime directive - cultural contamination of pre-warp civilizations.
It was interesting to watch Archer's certainty that they not tell the truth, and then when faced with death for Malcolm, he waffles back and forth from don't tell the truth, tell the truth, don't tell the truth.
ARCHER: What if we did tell them the truth?
REED: You said it yourself, Captain. They'd never believe us.
ARCHER: If we show them to the shuttlepod, bring the General up to Enterprise, give him the grand tour, top it off with dinner in the Captain's mess. We'd probably all have a good laugh over how he almost sent us to the gallows. I've gotten plenty of lectures on cultural contamination, but T'Pol never mentioned anything about sacrificing crewmen to prevent it.
REED: If we did tell them who we are, maybe it would do them a world of good. Look what the Vulcans did for Earth.
ARCHER: That was different. These people haven't even split the atom yet. The Vulcans waited until we were ready. Until we had the ability to travel to other stars. We're doing the right thing, Malcolm. I'm sorry you won't get a chance to write that report.
When he realizes that he can't tell them the truth, he asks them not to kill Malcolm while NOT pleading for his own life.
ARCHER: He's my tactical officer. He can tell you everything you want to know about the Alliance's troop deployments, their weapons.
REED: Captain.
ARCHER: You don't need to kill him.
The one thing I found odd was at the end is T'Pol's last line to Archer. I couldn't tell if she is impressed with his actions, just surprised, or both. I would think that by now she wouldn't be surprised that he chose to die rather than contaminate the planet.
T'POL: You don't have to leave technology behind to contaminate a culture. (turns to leave) You were willing to sacrifice your life to protect them. I would not have expected that.
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honeybee1111 GROUP: Members POSTS: 880 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 10:27 am
I always found this episode really depressing. I don't think its bad per say, but it is a downer. It's one of the three "why we need the prime directive" episodes along with Dear Doctor and Cogenitor - Cogenitor probably being the best of the three. Come to think of it, all three episodes are serious downers.
But getting back to The Communicator, I found the reactions of Archer, Malcolm and T'Pol really excellent - well written and acted. I do have a few quibbles with the plot, though. I still have a hard time believing Malcolm would leave his Communicator behind - he's so together. I would have preferred it if his communicator had been stolen or something. I just think the character was more competent that that. Archer, Trip or Hoshi, I think would have been more capable of making that mistake.
Also, I don't really believe the aliens would have executed two people whom they discovered were so physiologically different from them so quickly - whatever they thought they were. Even if the aliens were supposed to be Nazi-like, which they were, I think they would have kept them alive for study.
That said, I think the stuff between Reed and Archer was really good while they were waiting to die. Well acted and powerful. And it did illustrate why the Vulcans are so cautious about making first contact.
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lostshaker GROUP: Members POSTS: 2293 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 10:28 am
I thought this episode was fantastic. Among other things it brought Archer closer to an understanding of the Vulcans and vice versa as shown through T'Pol. | Quote | | The one thing I found odd was at the end is T'Pol's last line to Archer. I couldn't tell if she is impressed with his actions, just surprised, or both. I would think that by now she wouldn't be surprised that he chose to die rather than contaminate the planet. |
The crew really hadn't been tested in this way before, and ENT showed how notions really had to be drilled into the Vulcans heads to gain acceptance. I enjoyed everything from the message of the episode to the little observations, like Archer jokingly pointing out why aliens must always be landing in corn fields. |
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honeybee1111 GROUP: Members POSTS: 880 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 10:31 am
One thing I did really appreciate in the episode was that Reed and Archer were both willing to die to prevent cultural contamination - something that was still somewhat an abstract notion for them, but they were starting to comprehend it. And it really did impress T'Pol and took her respect for humans to a new level.
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whyaduck GROUP: Members POSTS: 3478 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 10:39 am
I like this episode a lot. It was another one of the relationship and character growth episodes. The scenes between Archer and Reed were so well written and acted, as were the scenes between Archer and T'Pol. There's something about the feel of this episode that I really like. As to Malcolm leaving his communicator, it probably dropped out of his pocket. Showing Archer searching for his scanner on the way back to Enterprise was added, I think, to show how it could happen to anybody.  |
Dbear1 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1594 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 10:42 am
Reed did not leave his communicator behind; it simply fell out of his pocket. Even the most competent person can have accidents happen to them. Reed is competent of course, a bit paranoid at times, but defiantly competent, but that type of accident could happen to anyone.
I also think you have to be careful on comparing these guys to Nazis, were they the nicest people in the universe, no, but there was no indication they believed in concentration camps and ethnic extermination. They thought Archer and Reed were enemy agents and it is not uncommon for governments to execute spies.
As for the actual episode, I really did not consider this a downer like Dear Doctor and Cogenitor. I actually like this story, it did not have a super happy ending, but it highlighted the dangers of exploring less advanced cultures. Archer had to play this one by ear and some of his decisions I think were correct others I think he was wrong, but I always took this as a character development episode where Archer learned a bit more on the dangers of space travel.
As for Archer and TPols conversation at the end of the episode, I thought it fit. TPol knew that Archer did not share her strict concept of non-interference, so it is understandable that she would be a bit surprised that he would be willing to make such a sacrifice.
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honeybee1111 GROUP: Members POSTS: 880 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 10:55 am
Perhaps its more accurate to say they were "totalitarian-like" rather than specifically Nazi like. But I got a very "this is this civilizations WWII and these are not the good guys" vibe from the people who were holding Reed and Archer. But it is a far point to say that they were not Nazis per say. I'm all for not using the term Nazi cavalierly.
That said, summarily executing them given the mysterious nature of their physiology seemed to me a pretty bone-headed move. And doesn't speak well of the civilization.
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lostshaker GROUP: Members POSTS: 2293 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 11:20 am
'Cogenitor' is the only episode I felt was a downer, because it ended so tragically. In 'Dear Doctor' the crew decided not to interfere, but left the planet with either race having a chance. 'The Communicator' showed what was needed and was an awesome take off of TOS' "A Piece of the Action" where McCoy said he left his communicator behind in Bella's office. Early Starfleet crews made big mistakes and I'm glad they showed those.
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Dbear1 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1594 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 11:21 am
Fair enough.
I think one of the reasons they reacted the way they did is Archers story about belonging to the alliance (this is where I think he made a big mistake) and being genetically enhanced and having weapons and ships they had no chance against scared the crap out of these people.
They were on the brink of war with the alliance (we have no idea who was the aggressor or even if it was a case of aggression), and they just been told that their enemy has toys that can kick their asses without breaking a sweat. This would cause any government to become a bit trigger happy.
Does it make their action right, no, but it does make them understandable. Just my take on this, many will disagree of course, part of the fun of these type of discussions.
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honeybee1111 GROUP: Members POSTS: 880 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 11:31 am
The reason I think this was kind of a downer was because of T'Pol's correct last line - communicator or not - they just totally changed the course of this civilization's history by their mere presence - and it likely not for the better. So, while I'm glad that Reed & Archer were rescued, T'Pol's point is a fair one. They very well could have really screwed these people Or not. We just don't know.
In some ways, I find Cogenitor less depressing because at the very least Trip had a point about those aliens oppressing a gender of their species. His intentions were honorable, although the results were terrible. Thus we need the prime directive. I've always said that I hoped the aliens in that episode wouldn't be allowed to join the Federation unless they started treating their third gender with more respect. Kind of like the EU expects a base line of human rights to be respected before ever considering letting a country join. Don't like it? You're welcome not to apply for membership.
In the Communicator, the random way our heroes screw with the civilization - and the broad reaching ramifications such as potentially extending a global conflict - are arguably worse than the one death in Cogenitor. But I feel like I'm coming off as too hard on the episode - I actually think its one of the better acted second season episodes and raises some really important points.
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BrotherofShran01 GROUP: Members POSTS: 23343  |
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Nov. 01 2009, 11:42 am
That culture could have been contaminated by any warp capable race. The Klingons could have landed there and really do damage to their culture (TOS episode "A private little war"). I am surprise that first contact rules have not been developed first before a starship or and starfleet vessel lands on a pre-warp civilization with measures to track and beam out personnel if trouble happens and the landing party was alone to allow a beam up.
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lostshaker GROUP: Members POSTS: 2293 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 11:54 am
I certainly think the points you guys are talking about in 'The Communicator' exists. I just loved that stuff. I really wanted Archer's crew to screw over some pre-warp civilizations like how the Horizon left behind the Gangster novel on Sigma Iotia.
Dear1, you're spot on in the analysis of the planet's political stage. Archer had only the most superficial knowledge when he started talking about genetic engineering. But the problem is, had Archer told those people him and Reed were aliens, they might have been shot dead and had their technology exploited. That one political faction was already under the impression they were aliens. An autopsy of Reed's and Archer's body would have only led to conclusive proof... or a scandalous alien autopsy video 40 years down the road.
honeybee, I tend to focus on T'Pol's line about Archer willing to sacrifice himself to prevent culture contamination. It's a balance. While there is some bad, there's also some good. T'Pol recognizes that humans are learning.
As for 'Cogenitor', I still think Trip was applying human values to an alien culture. It was certainly tragic, but we have only a superficial view of how the cogenitor's were treated. One interaction is not a suitable enough foundation to determine a culture's values. This reinforced T'Pol's statement to Trip in "Broken Bow" about learning to be objective and knowing when to interfere and when not to. Beautiful episode.
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Dbear1 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1594 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 12:07 pm
| Quote (lostshaker @ Nov. 01 2009, 11:54 am) | I certainly think the points you guys are talking about in 'The Communicator' exists. I just loved that stuff. I really wanted Archer's crew to screw over some pre-warp civilizations like how the Horizon left behind the Gangster novel on Sigma Iotia.
Dear1, you're spot on in the analysis of the planet's political stage. Archer had only the most superficial knowledge when he started talking about genetic engineering. But the problem is, had Archer told those people him and Reed were aliens, they might have been shot dead and had their technology exploited. That one political faction was already under the impression they were aliens. An autopsy of Reed's and Archer's body would have only led to conclusive proof... or a scandalous alien autopsy video 40 years down the road.
honeybee, I tend to focus on T'Pol's line about Archer willing to sacrifice himself to prevent culture contamination. It's a balance. While there is some bad, there's also some good. T'Pol recognizes that humans are learning.
As for 'Cogenitor', I still think Trip was applying human values to an alien culture. It was certainly tragic, but we have only a superficial view of how the cogenitor's were treated. One interaction is not a suitable enough foundation to determine a culture's values. This reinforced T'Pol's statement to Trip in "Broken Bow" about learning to be objective and knowing when to interfere and when not to. Beautiful episode. |
Lostshaker, I defiantly do not think Archer should have admitted to being an alien, but I think his portraying himself and Reed as alliance agents made it worse. I personally think he should of just clamed up at that point; yes their technology would have contaminated the culture if they had not been rescued. But I think it would have been less damaging leaving a mystery versus scaring the crap out of these guys about an adversary on their own planet. I do not have a problem with Archer making this mistake, he was simply having to make the rules up as he went along. This was one of the fun things about this crew, they were the first ones out and they did not have all the experience that other crews did. As for the Prime Directive, first I have to admit I am not a fan of how the PD was applied throughout ST. It is a good concept, but I always felt that it was never applied evenly throughout the different series. One time they would site not doing something due to the PD, then later do almost the same thing and basically say screw the PD. Second I think it was good for the story of this crew that they did not have the PD, it made the show seem more interesting that they had to learn from their mistakes. |
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honeybee1111 GROUP: Members POSTS: 880 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 12:13 pm
I'd never argue that Trip did the right thing in Cogenitor or that he wasn't wrongly applying human values to their culture - but I will maintain that that episode was written to show that that species treated their third gender very badly and were dead wrong about them being mentally "retarded" as they asserted. And I also think that its fair to say that all sentient beings should have a right to self-determination and basic "human" rights. The problem with that, as was beautifully shown in Cogenitor, is that trying to force that idea of civilizations most often makes things worse and not better. I think the fact that the alien species were on morally thin ice with the way they treated their third gender makes the episode way more complex and interesting than if the cogenitors turned out to be what the species said they were.
And yes, The Communicator is very balanced. Archer may have screwed up the first contact royally, but in the end he's willing to die for the mistake. So is Reed. That is impressive and makes that episode quite complex. Still find it depressing how screwed the civilization probably is, but that doesn't make the episode bad.
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Dbear1 GROUP: Members POSTS: 1594 |
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Nov. 01 2009, 12:26 pm
Cogenitor is actually the episode that causes me the most discomfort watching. I understood why Trip was doing what he did, but at the same time I knew it would end in tragedy. It was like watching the preverbal train wreck in slow motion.
Trip had a tendency to have his moral compass lead his actions; this is what made him a great character. But it also leads to some bad results because he usually could not step back and look at the bigger issues.
It is strange that the death of an individual causes more discomfort in me then the possible war between two nations as a viewer. Both are tragic, but the first is the one that makes more of an emotional impact.
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