ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

My theory about the "Roman Empire" planet...

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 12:16 am

It occurs to me that there are WAY too many similarities between the Roman Empire on Earth and on this planet to be mere "parallel development" as Spock thought. The culture on this planet is not similar to how other cultures develop on other planets, but rather exactly the same. It leads me to one conclusion....

This planet is not the result of a humanoid culture developing on its own terms, but rather a transplanted one from Earth. These people are probably humans from Earth who were brought to this planet during Roman times, much in the same way that Native American tribes were transplanted there on another planet. They were both put on other planets by aliens hoping to preserve their respective cultures, in these cases the Native American and Greco-Roman culture.

First of all, in the episode Merricus said "these people have been handling slaves for 2000 years". It fits in to perfectly with the state of the Roman culture then and how it carried on down the ages. Among them, the political and legal systems of Rome, with Senators, First Citizens, slavery etc. Secondly, this culture worships the exact same pantheon of gods like Jupiter and Neptune. Third, they use the exact same cultural brands, like helmets, gladiatorial fights, their style of art, the latin alphabet, names like "Achilles" from their mythology, and other names like Flavius, and even the style of architecture. Fourth, the underground Christian movement, which worships "the word of the Son", the son of God. Fifth, all "outsiders" are called barbarians.

All of these things fit in perfectly with the state of the Roman culture, which tells me that they were brought to this planet from Earth 2000 years ago in order to keep the culture preserved and not potentially destroyed or conquered, as had happened to the Romans centuries later.

Now, you ask yourselves, where did all these Romans come from, and how could this vast disappearance have not been noticed by the Roman authorities?

The answer to this would be Pompeii, which was destroyed by Mt. Vesuvius in 79 AD. With the locals in danger or being destroyed by the erupting volcano and resulting ash, poison gases, lava and what not, suppose some aliens came along and offered to evacuate the locals off Pompeii away from the danger? Some or most of the locals agree, and the aliens transport them away from peril and land them on the new planet.

Pompeii had all the necessary cultural prerequisites to reproduce what they had lost on Earth, including the Christian religion, as there were underground Christian movements in Pompeii at the time. They would have brought gladiators, nobles, politicians, slaves, civil servants, soldiers, artisans, temple priests, Christians, businessmen, tradesmen etc. The Roman authorities on Earth were probably none the wiser, simply assuming that all had been lost in the eruption.

The survivors recreated the Roman world on this new planet over time, building a new civilization and making advances, but at the same time with no competing cultures or outside forces on the planet, they stagnated form a cultural point of view. Hence their overly conservative viewpoint of preserving all they had ever knew. Since "Rome never fell" on this planet, and there were likely no other cultures, they never had much of an impetus for cultural change like on Earth.

Vice_Adm_Baxter

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 0

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 12:55 am

Very interesting, although it can be very likely that the Romans developed on the alien planet first then were transplanted to earth. Good theory BTW.

Although you might want to keep in mind that the planet itself was physically the same as Earth as if it was a twin planet.

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 12:58 am

No, this other planet actually had different landmasses and contintenal arrangements. It's not a duplicate like Miri's planet was. It's makeup was simply similar to Earth.

The Roman culture was predated and influenced by the Greek culture don't forget, which may have been influenced by aliens who resided in Mt. Olympus posing as Gods.

Also, the Christian religion did not originate with the Romans, but was rather an offshoot of Judaism from Palestine, so there's no way the Christian religion could have originated on this other planet.

Mirrorgirl

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 15692

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 1:23 am

Interesting theory. But didn't the inhabitants of Amerind (The Paradise Syndrome) have an active cultural memory of their tranplant by the 'Wise Ones'? Why do the Romans in 'Bread and Circuses' not also have a myth/legend/cultural memory of their transplant?

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 1:29 am

The Indians in that episode partly seem to remember "the wise ones" because they were using their technology to keep an asteroid from smashing into their planet.

You bring an interesting point....maybe the aliens wiped away their collective memory of their existence in order not to contaminate their culture.

BUT....they seem to call aliens like Spock "barbarians"....maybe they were vaguely aware of the existence of offworlders and feared them contaminating their culture?

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 1:37 am

It also bears in mind an episode from Enterprise....one in which a bunch of settlers from the American West were kidnapped by aliens called Skagarians in the 1800's to be used as slaves. The humans rebelled, crashed the ship and they recreated the frontier towns they had left behind, making the planet centuries later a recreation of the American West in the 1800's, with the Skagarians now an oppressed minority.

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 11:51 am

It some ways, you can also see another precedent with the Romulans, who were rreally Vulcans who left that world to continue living in "the old ways of honor and combat" instead of adopting Surak's philosophy of peace and logic. They were a transplanted culture who continued where they took off on Vulcan.

BrotherofShran01

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 23344

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 1:46 pm

Very good and thorough analysis terranempire1976. It was mentioned in the episode "The Paradise Syndrome" that the Preservers may have transplanted the the inhabitants of Amerind from Earth, but what alien race would transport a warrior culture like the Romans from Earth to that planet. It doesn't seem like the Preservers to me. Additionally they spoke English and not Latin or Greek.

FLAVIUS [OC]: Don't move! Hands in the air!
SPOCK: Complete Earth parallel. The language here is English.
(Kirk tries to go for his phaser, and another shot hits the ground near his feet.)
FLAVIUS [OC]: I said, don't move!
KIRK: I think he means it, Spock.
SPOCK: There would seem to be evidence to that effect.
(Four men appear from behind rocks. They are wearing t-shirts with a short chain motif at the neck. The leader is barefoot and wearing shorts.)
FLAVIUS: Who are you?
KIRK: We come from another province.
FLAVIUS: (to Spock) Where are you from? What do you call those?
SPOCK: I call them ears.
FLAVIUS: Are you trying to be funny?
SPOCK: Never. Colloquial twentieth-century English. An amazing parallel.
KIRK: We come from a place that's quite some journey from here. I doubt if you've heard
FLAVIUS: Uniforms. Probably some new Praetorian guard unit. I should kill you here, but Septimus would probably be displeased. Move. Move!
(As they are lead along, a guard whistles the signal that they are approaching, and two men come out of a hidden cave.

ssmukhi

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 65791

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 2:35 pm

Quote (terranempire1976 @ Nov. 01 2009, 11:58 am)
Also, the Christian religion did not originate with the Romans, but was rather an offshoot of Judaism from Palestine, so there's no way the Christian religion could have originated on this other planet.

This planet had the beginnings of their own version of Christianity:

SPOCK: I wish we could have examined that belief of his more closely. It seems illogical for a sun worshiper to develop a philosophy of total brotherhood. Sun worship is usually a primitive superstition religion.
UHURA: I'm afraid you have it all wrong, Mister Spock, all of you. I've been monitoring some of their old-style radio waves, the empire spokesman trying to ridicule their religion. But he couldn't. Don't you understand? It's not the sun up in the sky. It's the Son of God.
KIRK: Caesar and Christ. They had them both. And the word is spreading only now.
MCCOY: A philosophy of total love and total brotherhood.
SPOCK: It will replace their imperial Rome, but it will happen in their twentieth century.
KIRK: Wouldn't it be something to watch, to be a part of? To see it happen all over again?

BrotherofShran01

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 23344

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 3:51 pm

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 6:34 pm

what alien race would transport a warrior culture like the Romans from Earth[/I]

Well, in all fairness, all civilizations, tribes and so on could be called "warrior races", including the Native Americans. The Romans were just a little more successful at it than others.

Maybe Spock was so impressed by the parallels that he absent-mindedly forgot that he and the landing party were using universal translators, in which everybody speaks English?

The Latin language did not evolve into English, but rather Italian and other languages. While Latin is present in a lot of English words, it gets classified as a "Germanic" language for the most part.

The Romans were not just conquerors with their legions, but they also developed great arts and sciences, efficient government, extensive civil engineering and infrastructure, marine management and so on. The Roman were great civilizers whose influence it still felt in our lives even today. Perhaps the preservers recognized this with their great cultural achievemnets and hoped to keep it safe, maybe on another planet they might not be so militaristic with no competition.

BrotherofShran01

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 23344

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 6:57 pm

Quote (terranempire1976 @ Nov. 01 2009, 6:34 pm)
what alien race would transport a warrior culture like the Romans from Earth[/I]

Well, in all fairness, all civilizations, tribes and so on could be called "warrior races", including the Native Americans. The Romans were just a little more successful at it than others.

Maybe Spock was so impressed by the parallels that he absent-mindedly forgot that he and the landing party were using universal translators, in which everybody speaks English?

The Latin language did not evolve into English, but rather Italian and other languages. While Latin is present in a lot of English words, it gets classified as a "Germanic" language for the most part.

The Romans were not just conquerors with their legions, but they also developed great arts and sciences, efficient government, extensive civil engineering and infrastructure, marine management and so on. The Roman were great civilizers whose influence it still felt in our lives even today. Perhaps the preservers recognized this with their great cultural achievemnets and hoped to keep it safe, maybe on another planet they might not be so militaristic with no competition.

Quote
Well, in all fairness, all civilizations, tribes and so on could be called "warrior races", including the Native Americans. The Romans were just a little more successful at it than others.


The Native Americans were not Conquerors like the Romans. I do not see anything in history that suggest that they invaded a country and took it over like the Romans did. As far as the Romans' contributions, they are noteworthy. However, the Egyptians and the Chinese contributions were note worthy too.

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 8:08 pm

The Native Americans were not Conquerors like the Romans[I]

Ever hear of the Aztecs? They subjugated neighbouring tribes and sometimes used them for food and human sacrifice. The Sioux Indians in the Great Plains likewise tried to dominate militarily over the other tribes in the area and largely succeeded. On the Caribbean islands it was not unheard of to invade an island and wipe out rival tribes. The Incas in South America were known to send out military expeditions to crush smaller tribes and subjugate them. In Canada, the Iroquois and Huron Indians waged warfare constantly and tried to wipe each other out. The list goes on and on.

terranempire1976

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 36

Report this Nov. 01 2009, 8:24 pm

I know that Spock is not perfect, but I don't think that he a mistake like that. He is a computer expert and he would know whether the universal translator was being used to translate one language from another. He did help create a crude one in the TOS episode "Metamorphosis"

OK, fair enough, but admittedly there are still gaping holes here. If languages like Latin and English developed exactly as the same lines on Earth, then according to the law of parallel development, then alien races like the Klingons and Bajorans should have been speaking Latin as well in some point in their histories then? ?I don't think so. Why should two seperate Earth languages develop exactly the same on another planet with an alien humanoid culture?

See, a better definition of "parallel development" could be made with, for example, the Maya Indians and Ancient Egyptians. Both had agriculural civilizations, both had writing and sciences, and both constructed pyramidal projects. They both developed simlarly along the same patterns, but both architectures were not exactly the same, both didn't have the exact same language or culture and both had different religious systems and pantheons of gods. And both of these cultures were on the same planet.

So why, then, should a planet thousands of light years from Earth produce an exact same culture that existed on Earth millennia ago? And with not just one, but two different Earth languages?

For the sake of argument, let's say Latin did develop on this planet independently. Centuries later, shouldn't this language be more akin to something like Italian than English? Even Romanian would be a much closer fit I should think.

The English language on Earth was made possible by the fall of the Roman Empire. After the Romans left Britain, it was invaded by the Angles and Saxons from Germany who set up kingdoms there, and subjugated the native Celts. Later on, it was invaded by the Danes for a few years which also influenced the language. In 1066, in come the Normans who largely spoke French and introduced those French words into the English language. The Elizabethan period saw William Shakespeake making his massive contributions to the language, and Protestantism in that country saw the writing of the King James Bible. The British Empire was responsibile for a lot of cultural and scientific achievements which contributed, to say nothing of all the words we borrowed from other languages. And let's not forget the contributions the Americans made after their independence.

And yet, in this world, Rome did not fall, so how was all of this possible, hmmm?

Ther only explanation was that this was a result of Earth culture be translplanted on this other planet, and maybe some more interference since then. That parallel development can produce an exact same culture somewhere else does not hold water.

ssmukhi

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 65791

Report this Nov. 03 2009, 2:20 am

I have an answer, it's called "Suspension of disbelief" and "fiction". :rookie:

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum