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Has Star Trek ever successfully

bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJ
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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 12:59 pm

Has Star Trek ever successfully killed off a major character? I'm going to have to argue that the answer is no.

SPOILERS!  If you haven't seen all of the movies or series episodes, you might want to skip this thread.

Spock  In my opinion, Spock's death in TWOK was the best death scene in the franchise.  So why am I arguing that they didn't successfully kill off his character?  Because they brought him back to life in the next movie.

Kirk Kirk's death in Generations was pretty lame.  During a fist fight he fell on a bridge, the bridge collapsed, and he died.  Not a fitting end for one of the best Starfleet captains, and the most recognizable character in the franchise.  Even Ronald D. Moore (one of the movie's writers) has made statements that he and the other writers should have thought out Kirk's death a little more.

Tasha Yar After signing on for the first season on TNG, Denise Crosby decided that she wanted out to peruse a film career.  They killed her character off in "Skin Of Evil", and in my opinion it was a pretty lame, anticlimactic death.  But not only was it a lame death, they ended up bringing her back to life.  Due to the events in "Yesterday's Enterprise", we find out that Tasha didn't actually die in TNG's first season, but ended up on Romulous and had a child with a Romulan.  That child later became the villain Sela.

Data This one doesn't need too much explanation.  His death scene in "Nemesis" was needless and contrived, and they heavily implied that he still lived through B-4.  Weak.

Jadzia Dax While her death scene wasn't terrible, I didn't think it was particularly good either.  I mean, she ran into Dukat at the wrong time and he killed her. And though Jadzia died, the symbiont (sp?) lived, which carried a part of her.  Then the symbiont was placed into Ezri, who replaced Jadzia on the show.

Sisko This one is kind of tricky, because they never outright stated that he died.  Just that he "joined the prohets", which is kind of a shame because his "death" scene was pretty good.  I heard that he was originally supposed to die, but Avery Brooks didn't want to play into the stereotype of black men leaving their significant others while they were pregnant (as Sisko's wife was pregnant on the show), so he thought that joining the prophets left it more open-ended.

Trip This is a notoriously bad death scene.  Contrived to the extreme.

Did I leave anyone out?  Keep in mind that I'm only including major characters in this.  So I'm not counting characters like Sarek, Damar, etc.

TashaYar86

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 1:54 pm

Has Star Trek ever successfully killed off a major character? No.

Commander_Zelkar

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 1:59 pm

Tasha's death was a complete success.

EnterpriseSovereign

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 7:36 pm

It is weird that any characters that died before the end of a series always came back in one form or another :eyesroll:

It does make me ask what the point is of a death scene if the character was popular enough to bring back soon after :logical:

tribblenator999

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 7:38 pm

None in a good way.

Dbear1

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 8:16 pm

The only really good one was Spock's, Dax's was not too bad, but not great.

The worst has to be Trip's, the way it was done was extremely bad and then the way they handled it afterward was even worse.

whyaduck

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 9:07 pm

Quote (Dbear1 @ Oct. 27 2009, 8:16 pm)
The worst has to be Trip's, the way it was done was extremely bad and then the way they handled it afterward was even worse.

Boggles the mind that B&B thought this, Trip's death as well as the whole lousy episode, was a good idea and that the fans would like it.

TashaYar86

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 5:46 am

Quote (Commander_Zelkar @ Oct. 27 2009, 1:59 pm)
Tasha's death was a complete success.

:O  :grr:

whyaduck

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 10:47 am

Quote (trekbuff @ Oct. 27 2009, 9:42 pm)
Quote (whyaduck @ Oct. 27 2009, 9:07 pm)
Quote (Dbear1 @ Oct. 27 2009, 8:16 pm)
The worst has to be Trip's, the way it was done was extremely bad and then the way they handled it afterward was even worse.

Boggles the mind that B&B thought this, Trip's death as well as the whole lousy episode, was a good idea and that the fans would like it.

Hey duck! :)

Have you not read all of the comments about Connor Trinneer's comments that TATV was Braga's middle finger to the fans for failing to watch and/or approve of his three years of the series?

I don't believe Braga ever thought TATV was any sort of good idea in the minds of the fans. If Braga and Trinneer are as much friends as Trinneer lead me to believe in that interview, TATV was no valentine gift.

TATV is infamous for fan animosity...

Hi TB - I saw the interview, and I don't think Connor said quite what you interpreted. I don't have time right now to look it up, but I think I posted his comments on a thread on the Enterprise board.

bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJ
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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 2:45 pm

Quote (whyaduck @ Oct. 28 2009, 10:47 am)
Quote (trekbuff @ Oct. 27 2009, 9:42 pm)
Quote (whyaduck @ Oct. 27 2009, 9:07 pm)
Quote (Dbear1 @ Oct. 27 2009, 8:16 pm)
The worst has to be Trip's, the way it was done was extremely bad and then the way they handled it afterward was even worse.

Boggles the mind that B&B thought this, Trip's death as well as the whole lousy episode, was a good idea and that the fans would like it.

Hey duck! :)

Have you not read all of the comments about Connor Trinneer's comments that TATV was Braga's middle finger to the fans for failing to watch and/or approve of his three years of the series?

I don't believe Braga ever thought TATV was any sort of good idea in the minds of the fans. If Braga and Trinneer are as much friends as Trinneer lead me to believe in that interview, TATV was no valentine gift.

TATV is infamous for fan animosity...

Hi TB - I saw the interview, and I don't think Connor said quite what you interpreted. I don't have time right now to look it up, but I think I posted his comments on a thread on the Enterprise board.

I read a recent Braga interview where he actually talked about TATV.  He basically said that the reason why he framed the story the way he did was because Star Trek was going off the air for the first time since 1987 and he really wanted to do something special for the fans by trying to include other aspects of the franchise.  He admitted that after seeing the final project and thinking about it for the last few years that it was a mistake.  He also pointed out that originally it was supposed to be a two hour finale, and that made it more challenging as well.

I honestly think he had good intentions, I just don't think he had the writing chops to pull it off.

Avenger_Class2009

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 2:45 pm

They killed off William Shatner and have ignored him from any more Trek series or movies. I guess he wants top billing and a large amount of money to come back
Come on now... Spock came back via creative writing

bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJ
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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 2:54 pm

Quote (Avenger_Class2009 @ Oct. 28 2009, 2:45 pm)
They killed off William Shatner and have ignored him from any more Trek series or movies. I guess he wants top billing and a large amount of money to come back
Come on now... Spock came back via creative writing

William Shatner was pissing and moaning for more than a year because he wanted to be in JJ's "Star Trek", but JJ said no because he couldn't fit him into the script without it taking away from the quality of the movie.

I'm pretty sure JJ was asked recently if Shatner would be in the next movie and he pretty much said he was open to anything.

OtakuJo

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 8:37 pm

Quote (bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJoint @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:59 pm)
Has Star Trek ever successfully killed off a major character?

Yes. Because after all, they're dead -- and one might argue that that's pretty "successful".

OtakuJo

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Report this Oct. 30 2009, 1:25 am

I guess death is not always strictly "meaningful". That's the way of things. Bummer, but true.

Praxius

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Report this Oct. 30 2009, 2:05 pm

Quote (bensmalls_is_a_BigYellowJoint @ Oct. 27 2009, 8:59 am)

Quote
Kirk Kirk's death in Generations was pretty lame.  During a fist fight he fell on a bridge, the bridge collapsed, and he died.  Not a fitting end for one of the best Starfleet captains, and the most recognizable character in the franchise.  Even Ronald D. Moore (one of the movie's writers) has made statements that he and the other writers should have thought out Kirk's death a little more.


Well in the begining of that movie everybody believed he died trying to save the Enterprise B.... then he died saving the Enterprise D crew along with an entire solar system..... to me that's pretty impressive, but I do understand it was a bit odd for all that he has done he ended up dying in some unnamed desert fighting some lunatic.

But saving two Enterprise crews..... that gets brownie points in my books.

Quote
Data This one doesn't need too much explanation.  His death scene in "Nemesis" was needless and contrived, and they heavily implied that he still lived through B-4.  Weak.


I have to disagree.... Data finally reached his humanity by sacraficing himself to save the Enterprise crew, as well as planet Earth. But overall, I don't believe they were meaning to imply that he in fact died like any other living being.... he's a computer for the most part, which means there are different parameters involved in his existence.

In another thread someone mentioned that Brent Spiner didn't want to keep doing the character due to aging..... this could be used as a way to get a new actor (New andoid body) for Data's memories and files, etc.

Honestly Data's "Death" allowed for a crap load of speculation and assumptions on his actual existence/death, and when something in Star Trek makes you sit and think for a bit.... they did their job right.

Quote
Sisko This one is kind of tricky, because they never outright stated that he died.  Just that he "joined the prohets", which is kind of a shame because his "death" scene was pretty good.  I heard that he was originally supposed to die, but Avery Brooks didn't want to play into the stereotype of black men leaving their significant others while they were pregnant (as Sisko's wife was pregnant on the show), so he thought that joining the prophets left it more open-ended.


But, if my memory serves correctly (been a few years since I seen the final episodes) there was talk of him returning someday.... and considering the Prophets don't exist in time, he could be back the very next day.

Quote
Did I leave anyone out?  Keep in mind that I'm only including major characters in this.  So I'm not counting characters like Sarek, Damar, etc.


Didn't I hear that Seven of Nine died in the end of Voyager? (I'm still trying to catch up on that series)

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