Star Trek

What a sad episode. It was quite tragic to think that a whole race of people were killing themselves because they thought they would be going to someplace better, when actually they were destined to simply decompose on an asteroid.
I thought the woman who played Ptara gave a great performance. I really felt her pain and fear and confusion at finding herself on a Starship instead of in the 'afterlife' with her loved ones, and then to discover that her loved ones were actually dead must have been devastating.

Harry came across as a bit of an idiot in this episode to be honest. I know he must have been scared and confused to find himself on this strange planet with these unknown people, but to blurt out what he'd seen on the asteroid without any thought at to how the information would affect them was really thoughtless, and surely an immense violation of the PD.

I also felt annoyed at how they were willing to revive Ptara without much thought as to how it would affect her, simply so they could get information out of her on where Harry was.
I'm glad that Chakotay at least was aware of how important it was to respect these people's choices and the sanctity of their burials.

Hatil was quite a tragic character. Even though his family believed that he would be going 'someplace better', to want him to pass on simply because he was a burden to them was heartbreaking. It made me think about the euthanasia debate that rages here in our day and age.

The ending wasn't very satisfying IMO. I'd like to have seen more about whether the Vhnori changed their opinions and practices in light of what Harry had told them, or if they simply continued sending their loved ones to their deaths. I didn't really buy Janeway's little speech at the end about the energy in the asteroid field possibly indicating an afterlife, it seemed a bit cheesy.

But on the whole it was an interesting episode, a fascinating concept and gave me a lot to think about.

This one is usually a skipper for me; I really never liked it when ST addresses the concept of religion.  They usually handle it with a sledge hammer versus handling such a topic with more respect.

I would prefer they show how the religious beliefs affect the culture, but leave the decision on how real those beliefs are to the audience.

I have heard second hand (which means I cannot say this is fact) that some of the writers and producers are involved in the atheist movement, which they have every right too of course.  But sometimes their concept is shown in the episodes dealing with this subject, where they show the believers as either idiots or fanatics.

I am sure others have differing views, but just stating mine on this subject.

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 24 2009, 9:47 am)

What a sad episode. It was quite tragic to think that a whole race of people were killing themselves because they thought they would be going to someplace better, when actually they were destined to simply decompose on an asteroid. I thought the woman who played Ptara gave a great performance. I really felt her pain and fear and confusion at finding herself on a Starship instead of in the 'afterlife' with her loved ones, and then to discover that her loved ones were actually dead must have been devastating. Harry came across as a bit of an idiot in this episode to be honest. I know he must have been scared and confused to find himself on this strange planet with these unknown people, but to blurt out what he'd seen on the asteroid without any thought at to how the information would affect them was really thoughtless, and surely an immense violation of the PD. I also felt annoyed at how they were willing to revive Ptara without much thought as to how it would affect her, simply so they could get information out of her on where Harry was. I'm glad that Chakotay at least was aware of how important it was to respect these people's choices and the sanctity of their burials. Hatil was quite a tragic character. Even though his family believed that he would be going 'someplace better', to want him to pass on simply because he was a burden to them was heartbreaking. It made me think about the euthanasia debate that rages here in our day and age. The ending wasn't very satisfying IMO. I'd like to have seen more about whether the Vhnori changed their opinions and practices in light of what Harry had told them, or if they simply continued sending their loved ones to their deaths. I didn't really buy Janeway's little speech at the end about the energy in the asteroid field possibly indicating an afterlife, it seemed a bit cheesy. But on the whole it was an interesting episode, a fascinating concept and gave me a lot to think about.

I don't think you can say for certain they don't go to someplace better.  Because their bodies decompose does not mean their spirits do as well.  I hate this episode because it's a Kim episode and he is he weakest character next to Kes, but I do think at the end, when Janeway talks about the "unusual energy signiture" of the astoroids she opens the possibility that maybe there is something more there than dead bodies on dead asteroids...IMO  Just because the "next emanation" is not in our demension doesn't mean it's not there

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 24 2009, 1:47 pm)

What a sad episode. It was quite tragic to think that a whole race of people were killing themselves because they thought they would be going to someplace better, when actually they were destined to simply decompose on an asteroid. I thought the woman who played Ptara gave a great performance. I really felt her pain and fear and confusion at finding herself on a Starship instead of in the 'afterlife' with her loved ones, and then to discover that her loved ones were actually dead must have been devastating. Harry came across as a bit of an idiot in this episode to be honest. I know he must have been scared and confused to find himself on this strange planet with these unknown people, but to blurt out what he'd seen on the asteroid without any thought at to how the information would affect them was really thoughtless, and surely an immense violation of the PD. I also felt annoyed at how they were willing to revive Ptara without much thought as to how it would affect her, simply so they could get information out of her on where Harry was. I'm glad that Chakotay at least was aware of how important it was to respect these people's choices and the sanctity of their burials. Hatil was quite a tragic character. Even though his family believed that he would be going 'someplace better', to want him to pass on simply because he was a burden to them was heartbreaking. It made me think about the euthanasia debate that rages here in our day and age. The ending wasn't very satisfying IMO. I'd like to have seen more about whether the Vhnori changed their opinions and practices in light of what Harry had told them, or if they simply continued sending their loved ones to their deaths. I didn't really buy Janeway's little speech at the end about the energy in the asteroid field possibly indicating an afterlife, it seemed a bit cheesy. But on the whole it was an interesting episode, a fascinating concept and gave me a lot to think about.

Not the most entertaining episode action wise, but I still like the way it touches on the subject of "faith" and the afterlife without trying to sway the viewer.
It would be easy to understand how a civilisation would "connect" the subspace vacuoles to the after life, and then be happy to enter the "next emanation"
I have to say that Chakotay's idea of a visual inspection rather than using tricorders always made me shake my head, is there really a difference?

I thought Harry's reaction to being inside the cenotaph was normal, after all he would have been in shock and had no idea what was really going on, or that the corpses on the asteroid were even from Vhnori.

Remember that the decision to revive Ptara was taken in haste, they didn't have time for a debate before her body was beyond recovery, and Harry was at stake. Under different circumstances I doubt Janeway would have revived her.

I liked Janeways prologue, all through the episode we believed that the Vhnori were throwing their lives away, when infact their faith just may be justfied by the discovery of the "dynamic energy" surrounding the asteroid.

Quote (Dbear1 @ Oct. 24 2009, 3:41 pm)

I would prefer they show how the religious beliefs affect the culture, but leave the decision on how real those beliefs are to the audience.

I would definitely like to have seen more on how the Vhnori coped with the information they got from Harry.

Quote (Dbear1 @ Oct. 24 2009, 3:41 pm)

I have heard second hand (which means I cannot say this is fact) that some of the writers and producers are involved in the atheist movement, which they have every right too of course. ¿But sometimes their concept is shown in the episodes dealing with this subject, where they show the believers as either idiots or fanatics.

I think Roddenberry was an atheist...don't know about anyone else though. But yeah, I don't really like when Trek gets overly religious. What I mean is, I'm interested to find out about other races religious beliefs if it's part of a story, but when the 'message' of the episode has religious undertones then it doesn't usually work for me personally.

Quote (voyfan99 @ Oct. 24 2009, 10:10 pm)

I don't think you can say for certain they don't go to someplace better. ¿Because their bodies decompose does not mean their spirits do as well. ¿I hate this episode because it's a Kim episode and he is he weakest character next to Kes, but I do think at the end, when Janeway talks about the "unusual energy signiture" of the astoroids she opens the possibility that maybe there is something more there than dead bodies on dead asteroids...IMO ¿Just because the "next emanation" is not in our demension doesn't mean it's not there

Yeah, you're right, and I didn't mean it to sound like I don't believe that they may have gone somewhere else, I just felt personally that them throwing that angle in at the end didn't really work for me.

And anyway, didn't Kes talk to Ptara about a more ethereal afterlife, and Ptara refused the idea because the Vhnori believed that in the next emanation they were still flesh and blood...so this still goes against their beliefs I guess.

Quote (captbates @ Oct. 24 2009, 10:19 pm)

Not the most entertaining episode action wise, but I still like the way it touches on the subject of "faith" and the afterlife without trying to sway the viewer. It would be easy to understand how a civilisation would "connect" the subspace vacuoles to the after life, and then be happy to enter the "next emanation"

I did think it was an interesting concept. My review probably reads more negative than I intended, because I did enjoy the episode overall.

Quote (captbates @ Oct. 24 2009, 10:19 pm)

I have to say that Chakotay's idea of a visual inspection rather than using tricorders always made me shake my head, is there really a difference?

ha ha. Well I don't know exactly how tricorders work, but I just presumed that it would have to 'interact' with the body more than just looking with their eyes would.
Either way, I did like that Chakotay had respect for the dead, whereas Harry saw them as just a 'science project'.

Quote (captbates @ Oct. 24 2009, 10:19 pm)

I thought Harry's reaction to being inside the cenotaph was normal, after all he would have been in shock and had no idea what was really going on, or that the corpses on the asteroid were even from Vhnori.

Yes, you are right, and to be honest, in that situation I probably would have acted exactly the same. I guess I was just a bit shocked at how one comment from one guy could destroy an entire races system of beliefs.

Quote (captbates @ Oct. 24 2009, 10:19 pm)

Remember that the decision to revive Ptara was taken in haste, they didn't have time for a debate before her body was beyond recovery, and Harry was at stake. Under different circumstances I doubt Janeway would have revived her.

Again, you are right, but it was still a very cruel and selfish thing to do IMO.

Quote (captbates @ Oct. 24 2009, 10:19 pm)

I liked Janeways prologue, all through the episode we believed that the Vhnori were throwing their lives away, when infact their faith just may be justfied by the discovery of the "dynamic energy" surrounding the asteroid.

I see what you mean. It just didn't work for me, felt a bit too much like 'everythings okay in the end'.

Not one of my favorites but a fairly decent ep., too say the least.


Only really bad part is: Harry breaks the Prime Directive BIG TIME!
He tells them who he is and where he's from before he himself knows where he is.

Just popping in to say that I've been enjoying reading your reviews, Mrs S. It's wonderful to see Voyager again through the eyes of someone watching it for the first time and seeing what constructive discussions that brings.

I am a fellow English lady, so I understand your spelling! And I also share your appreciation of Voyager's first officer - must be a non-US female attraction, as he doesn't seem popular with his compatriots! Although I'm full of admiration for the way they are holding back on airing their opinions of him at this stage!

I'm also watching Voyager again, this time with my husband who has not seen all of it before. I have to say I skipped it this time round.

I look forward to reading the rest of your reviews!

Hi Tayana *waves*

Thanks for your comments. It's always nice to meet a fellow Brit on these boards, as well as a fellow Chakotay admirer

If you've ever met someone who's core beliefs are shattered, it's hard to bring it to the screen.

This episode dealt with a topic too big for 43 minutes. Core beliefs,

like the Vulcans logic, Janeway's faith in science and anyones concept of the afterlife... isn't going to be changed in this span. I a person was wavering, maybe.

Side story that relates. I work in the computer field, and sometimes when a computer hard drive crashes and you need the data recovered you can send it off to a place to retrieve it. Drivesavers is a local company to my area that is near the best at this. One day they are interviewing a guy that worked for Western Digital (a hard drive company) for 20 years, looking for a position at Drivesavers. He's telling them all about his experience and they want to hire him.
So he asks, "how do you retrieve the data? Where's your clean room?"
"We don't have a clean room. We open the drives in the shop, spin them up and run a recovery program. We physically move the read head till data starts to recover. We can even move platters from a broken drive to a working drive and recover data that way"
"That is not possible. I've been doing this for 20 years. You cannot do that!" was his response
"Come on back, I'll show you."
He got up and walked out. His core belief was messed with, and he wouldn't even listen to opposition.

That that was just over Hard Drives!

Core beliefs can overcome any obstacles, even proof.

I see what you're saying Kludge, but the fact that it's hard to portray, or that the running time isn't sufficient, is a poor excuse for not exploring a topic IMO. Why approach that topic at all if they didn't feel that they could do it justice?

Like I said, I'm not really complaining though, I did think it was a great ep and really interesting. Just on a personal level I'd love to have seen more.

Quote (MrsStarbuck @ Oct. 27 2009, 9:55 pm)

I see what you're saying Kludge, but the fact that it's hard to portray, or that the running time isn't sufficient, is a poor excuse for not exploring a topic IMO. Why approach that topic at all if they didn't feel that they could do it justice? Like I said, I'm not really complaining though, I did think it was a great ep and really interesting. Just on a personal level I'd love to have seen more.

+1 I agree. I was saying, it was bound to fall short regardless how much time they gave to it.