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The Romulan War (Spoiler zone)

honeybee1111

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Report this Oct. 24 2009, 8:02 pm

Okay, fair warning. . . .this thread is for those who have finished the book or don't care about being SPOILED.

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Okay - Thoughts:


Was it just me or did Gannet Brooks get more time than any of the main characters? That bugged, but mostly I liked the book.

Loved the Trip plotline with the Vulcan spies and the mind melded Romulans. That was my favorite aspect of the book, including the TnT romance parts.


That all dovetails nicely with the reason why Vulcan is staying out of the conflict. I'm not sure I buy T'Pau's reasoning for not revealing it - but the reasons make sense to me.

Wished there had been more Captain Erika.

The Mars stuff was okay, but a bit convoluted.

Shran worked well, but those scenes felt like "here's Shran" rather than necessary to the plot.

Good battle scenes.

Criminal non use of Malcolm, Hoshi and Travis still on display. At least Hoshi gets to be captain in one scene.

honeybee1111

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Report this Oct. 25 2009, 11:55 am

Okay, more thoughts.

I think it's possible the Terix might actually be a Vulcan. A Vulcan pretending to be a Romulan mind-wiped to be a Vulcan. It's a possibility.

I'm convinced that either Y'cha or Denak is a Romulan, and that the other spouse is a Vulcan who has converted to the Romulan side through the bond. I'm not sure which of them is which. It's like they are a counterpoint to Trip & T'Pol, with a Vulcan bonding to a Human and then deciding to side with the humans politically.

Those of you who know about the Romulan War canon - do the Vulcans sit out the war the whole time? I think T'Pau's multiple reasons are solid, but I'm not sure if keeping those reasons from their human allies are as solid.

I think Martin is trying very hard to stick with canon, as much as anyone can. So, we know that Trip isn't going to come in from the cold - he's going to stay "dead" for the rest of his life. My guess is he will live a long time as Sopek the Vulcan - hopefully living with T'Pol. I would like - at the very least - for "Sopek" and T'Pol to return to Enterprise for awhile. (Please, Martin, if you are reading this, do that.)

He's also working hard to justify why the Vulcans wouldn't help the humans.

lostshaker

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Report this Oct. 25 2009, 4:00 pm

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Criminal non use of Malcolm, Hoshi and Travis still on display. At least Hoshi gets to be captain in one scene.

I'm kind of mixed on this. Each of the characters had their moments. Travis has a solid character arc through this story, better than anything on the show. Hoshi was great as Captain. I loved the Cygneti, which was a TOS reference to "Tomorrow is Yesterday." Thus far I've enjoyed Reed's contribution to the warp field sensor net, as well as his flight into Romulan Space in the other books. The use of nuclear weapons in regards to the sensor net was brilliant btw. I like the characters of DO (love what she did to Archer at Cygneti) & Lindsay too. I especially enjoyed the scene where Hoshi pointed out to Lindsay that she was handpicked by Archer just as much as the com officer. Oh, and I loved the new patches with each ship's motto, especially reading in Latin.  

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Those of you who know about the Romulan War canon - do the Vulcans sit out the war the whole time? I think T'Pau's multiple reasons are solid, but I'm not sure if keeping those reasons from their human allies are as solid.

It's not said if the Vulcans sit out the entire war, which is described as the Romulans being against Earth and her allies.

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He's also working hard to justify why the Vulcans wouldn't help the humans.

Martin has sold me on it. He's done his homework.

I quite thoroughly enjoyed the technological "backwards" explanation provided in the book. At first I felt uneasy about Daedalus Class Starships being constructed first, but then the explanations provided particularly through characters and dialogue solidified the notion. The economics of the war and the destruction of the various NX Class ships also explains why we never really come to see them later in history.

lostshaker

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Report this Oct. 25 2009, 10:03 pm

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I'm convinced that either Y'cha or Denak is a Romulan

I'm going to have to bet against Ych'a being a Romulan, because she initiated a mind meld. Romulans have never been shown to have this capability, nor have they ever been described as being telepathic in any way. I'm open to her or her spouse having gone to the dark side though, but for now I think they're the real McCoy.

I think T'Pau is in a no-win situation of her own, only to be enhanced if she told the Coalition that there was an ancestral connection between the Vulcans and the Romulans. Both cultures live in extremity of one another, one ruled by logic and the other by emotion. V'Las' regime proved how easy it was for the Vulcans to be swept away by their emotional undercurrents and get off track. So it's necessary for the Vulcans to stay out of the war and commit themselves to total peace. Unfortunately this extreme could be viewed by the allies as support for the Romulans, especially by the Andorians given the bad blood. T'Pau has a precarious balance to maintain between committing her people to the path of Surak and honoring the Coalition Compact. I can't help but favor her assessment of humanity.

honeybee1111

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Report this Oct. 26 2009, 6:46 am

You are wise in your bet, lostshaker. I'm going to now put my money on Denak being a deep cover Romulan who bonded with the Vulcan Y'cha and turned her to the dark side through love. Ironically, I believe their downfall will be T'Pol, who has bonded with a human.

Yes, Y'cha could very well know about the bond between Trip & T'Pol because she melded with him, but she did so under very tense circumstances. It's possible she didn't learn about the bond. Or maybe she wasn't looking for that.

ENT567

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Report this Oct. 26 2009, 9:09 am

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Was it just me or did Gannet Brooks get more time than any of the main characters?

It took me some time to remember who that could be. It's one of the least interesting personages from the least interesting episode (only to me, of scourse). And they decided to give her a considerable part in the book?.. *shrugs shoulders*

lostshaker

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Report this Oct. 26 2009, 11:35 am

Quote
I'm going to now put my money on Denak being a deep cover Romulan who bonded with the Vulcan Y'cha and turned her to the dark side through love. Ironically, I believe their downfall will be T'Pol, who has bonded with a human.

I can see Denak being a Romulan, since he's never been shown to initiate a meld. Ych'a could have performed the meld, linking them together like Trip and T'Pol. A clever, subtle point, honeybee, further supported by the fact that T'Pau suspects more spies within her government. I like this assessment. If it turns out to be true, I hope T'Pol turns out to be their downfall. OR... what if Denak was a Romulan Spy long ago and was turned to the good side by Ych'a because of the mind meld? I suggest this because of the notion of love and because a mind meld could give a Romulan some balance (though I grant an equally strong emotion could sway a Vulcan). Though this stems from a personal dislike of the emotion love causing one to betray one's principle's - mostly due to the ridiculousness of Anakin turning to the Dark Side out of love for Padme in Lucas' garbage dump. But the overall point I'm getting at with Denak's transformation to the good side, if he turns out to be Romulan, is that their union would be a forbearing parallel to the reunification that Spock will one day seek out with the Romulans, and that underground Romulan dissident groups seek as well.

Keep the theories coming.

honeybee1111

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Report this Oct. 26 2009, 5:49 pm

I suppose it is possible that Y'Cha and Denak are not fully dark-siders. Perhaps she converted him to the Vulcan side - or they are both seeking reunification. But certainly, we are meant to think something sinister happened with Trip's memories being altered and no clear understanding of how they escaped from Sopek. (Earlier I used Sopek as Trip's Vulcan name, but upon rereading, his Vulcan name is Sodek.)

Dbear1

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Report this Oct. 26 2009, 6:34 pm

I read this in one day, about 12 hours straight reading.  I think this is the best out of the three re-launch books. I found most of it very riveting and a really fun read.

About the only thing I got a bit tired of was the over use of Gannet Brooks, I understand that the author was trying to show the civilian side, but I think he over did it a bit.  I did not think she was that interesting a character in either the show or the books.  I think it would have been better to utilize Hoshi and Malcom more myself versus Brooks

As for TPau¿s reasoning, I understand she is a pacifist, but to be honest I do not think her stance is very logical, some including Soval and TPol think this also it seems.  Does she really think that the Romulans are going to stop at Earth if they win?  Plus it is going to be a long time before any race trust the Vulcans to be allies again.

It is pretty clear that the collation has collapsed at this point, and all the collations forces had a tough time holding the Romulans back, who have proven to be a tough enemy, smart, adaptable and hard fighting.  It will be interesting to see how the collation is reborn from this.  If Earth simply wins the war on their own it is unlikely that they would be interested in the alliance when everybody dumped them.  So it seems likely that the other races forces will rejoin the fight later.

I liked the Trip parts, although I have to admit he was always my favorite character.  I actually wished there had been a bit more about his time on the Vulcan ship.  The poor guy keeps almost getting out of the game, but someone either pulls him back in or something comes up where he feels it his duty to stay.  We know that he will never get his life back, but hopefully the author gives him a bit of happiness when all this is done with.

The way Trip and TPols meeting was done I really liked, the author captured the emotional reaction the characters had very well.  It was also nice they got to spend a bit more time together then a 30 minute romp in a shuttle pod.

As for YCha and Denak, I am not convinced either is a Romulan spy.  First both took part in the mind meld with Terix, not just YCha.  I think that YCha¿s actions with Sopek was not to help the Romulans but to attempt to sow some discord throughout the Romulan empire.  While both YCha and Denak are shown to be Sernites (Think that is how you spell it), it is clear that only some Sernites are pacifist.  In book two Soval is identified as belonging to the sect and he is not a pacifist.  Of course this is all conjecture on all our parts we will have to see how it plays out in later books (God knows Martin cannot stop here).

I give the book very high marks, it was a lot of fun to read.  Sorry my post is so long.

honeybee1111

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 8:27 am

There is a possibility that Y'cha wiping Trip/Sodek's mind of memories has justification - but given that it involved escape from Sopek's ship - I'm think there's also a good possibility that something sinister is going on. It does seem, however, that T'Pol is somewhat blinded by her loyalty to her old friends. And while we saw Denak participating in a mind meld, perhaps his bond with Y'Cha helps make it possible to make that connection.

I'm also not how much a mind meld would reveal about a person, so I'm not sure if Y'Cha knows that Trip and T'Pol have a telepathic bond. My sense is that bond is going to factor into the two of them figuring out whatever is going on. In any case, we'll see.

honeybee1111

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Report this Oct. 27 2009, 7:12 pm

Also, does anyone here watch Dollhouse? I thought the therapeutic mind-minds that Y'Cha was performing on Tevik might have been influenced by that show, in which the "dolls" submit to "treatments" which wipe their minds.

Middleman

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 7:44 am

I'm behind most of you guys in the book but ... Can someone explain to me the significance of that painfully long chapter with Ganett Brooks and the Martian Indian Tribe? I don't get it.

Dbear1

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 6:12 pm

Quote (Middleman @ Oct. 28 2009, 7:44 am)
I'm behind most of you guys in the book but ... Can someone explain to me the significance of that painfully long chapter with Ganett Brooks and the Martian Indian Tribe? I don't get it.

I did not either Middleman, Brooks really is my only real complaint about the book.  The author seemed to have fallen in love with her or something.  As for the Indian tribe, really have no clue way that was there.

Middleman

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 6:23 pm

Quote (Dbear1 @ Oct. 28 2009, 6:12 pm)
Quote (Middleman @ Oct. 28 2009, 7:44 am)
I'm behind most of you guys in the book but ... Can someone explain to me the significance of that painfully long chapter with Ganett Brooks and the Martian Indian Tribe? I don't get it.

I did not either Middleman, Brooks really is my only real complaint about the book. ¿The author seemed to have fallen in love with her or something. ¿As for the Indian tribe, really have no clue way that was there.

Glad I'm not the only one.

whyaduck

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Report this Oct. 28 2009, 7:56 pm

I haven't read this thread yet because I'm still reading the book, and someone else might have mentioned this, but I had to smile when I found out that Archer's middle name is Beckett. :D I believe that Scott Bakula mentioned in an interview awhile back that he thought that would be Archer's middle name.

BTW, MM - I didn't get the significance of Brooks and the Indian tribe either. I guess it doesn't get any clearer later on.

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